@Philokalia saidNo it isn't. - It is holding us back as a species.
Creationism? It is a completely valid idea about how the world came into being.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidHolding you back from what? What do you think you are missing out on if God created you? Is it keeping you back from total autonomy? Do you think this world, where everyone acts with autonomy, is something to aspire to, or would a common set of morals that prioritize love be an improvement over our current state of affairs?
No it isn't. - It is holding us back as a species.
@Philokalia saidBut all these are unique to the Judeo-Chistian religions.
The Louisiana example is happening locally. I do not think it is that inflammatory, either. It's a historic document that most people honor and part of the American heritage generally, and deciding to display it doesn't seem that bad.
The Bible in Oklahoma..? Same thing, it really should be a text that is studied in the West and in the East.
Creationism? It is a c ...[text shortened]... lso the Bible that is to be ultmately credited with the heritage of liberalism in the Western world.
By injecting these into state-sponsored schools, it is a clear violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.
Religion, specifically ONE religion only, has no place in schools. In a private school, I suppose you can do what you want, but the framers of the Constitution meant for the state to NOT push one religion over another onto the people in order to foster religious freedom in this country.
@KellyJay saidIt trashes science.
Holding you back from what? What do you think you are missing out on if God created you? Is it keeping you back from total autonomy? Do you think this world, where everyone acts with autonomy, is something to aspire to, or would a common set of morals that prioritize love be an improvement over our current state of affairs?
@Suzianne saidNo, it doesn’t. It is because of the laws of the universe that we can do science. Nothing about Atheism gives us reasons to expect law-like precision in the universe. We don’t even have a good reason to trust our reason with an Atheistic worldview, with our minds being the result of unguided processes without reason for it being accurate. It is believers in God who gave us the foundation for historical science.
It trashes science.
I’d also add science never gets trashed, the conclusions some come up with do, and they should be trashed if they are not accurately reflecting reality. You insert something as part of your worldview that isn’t real, but an error and all that follows based on that error will be wrong. You reject scripture because you think you know better. That is on you. If you believe science, which is constantly evolving with new information, is more trustworthy, then you are building your house on shifting sand. It is always changing because it must. Unless you decide you like some theory so much you want to turn it into an unquestionable dogma so nothing said about it can be acceptable, then you have traded the Word of God for an ever-changing word of man.
@Suzianne
They are historically highly relevant to the shared American heritage, and people who are unfamiliar with this will not understand being an American very well. I think it's all completely acceptable.
There is no clear violation where the federal government is violating it by respecting an institution of religion or merging with a religion.
Just like how you get your normal 'anti-racist' and 'anti-bullying' stuff and get to see some official, patriotic endorsements of American policies and cheering on of American ideals in the school, you can get some positive and generalized endorsements of other aspects of the American heritage that has shaped us withotu explicit endorsement of the religion.
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@Suzianne saidYeah, but the Torah, the Talmuddim (sp?), the Pali Canon of Buddha's Sutras and other teachings, the canonical Bible of Constantine's administration (and also the Gospels and other books that were rejected for that compilation), and the holy book and sayings and commentaries of Islam all preceded the US Constitution and The Bill of Rights -- so shouldn't those take precedence?
For starters, let's go back to the Constitutionally-supported separation of church and state, as voiced in the First Amendment.
Hint: It was made the very First Amendment for a reason.
What ever happened to stare decisis?
😉
@Arkturos saidThe First Amendment eschews ANY religion from being promoted or adopted as our state religion.
Yeah, but the Torah, the Talmuddim (sp?), the Pali Canon of Buddha's Sutras and other teachings, the canonical Bible of Constantine's administration (and also the Gospels and other books that were rejected for that compilation), and the holy book and commentaries of Islam all preceded the US Constitution and The Bill of Rights -- so shouldn't those take precedence?
What ever happened to stare decisis?
😉
Come on back once you grok what that means.
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidCreationism just needs an upgrade -- to Enlightenment-era Deism, for instance, or maybe something beyond that but in that direction.
No it isn't. - It is holding us back as a species.
In addition to "God the Clockmaker":
Why not a "God the Gardener" who just likes to see things grow and fall and for planets and galaxies to bash into each other once in a while?
Or a God who prepared the "Magic Crystal Tank" of the Cosmos, just to see what might develop?
Unfortunately for some, such an upgrade might undermine some of the myths and assertions that some (locals of Earth) might depend upon either for self-care or the control of others.
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@Suzianne saidAs Trump and his craven minions and sycophants and enablers have been trying to prove, that's all just words on paper.
The First Amendment eschews ANY religion from being promoted or adopted as our state religion.
Come on back once you grok what that means.
BTW, have you ever considered that you might be a more effective promoter of your views if you adopted or cultivated a more civil persona?
And who else would dare to give you such advice? 😉
@Arkturos saidThe sheer irony from this website washes over me every day and usually refuses to yield. No matter. It has no logical claim to rule over me. I refuse to submit to falsity.
As Trump and his craven minions and sycophants and enablers have been trying to prove, that's all just words on paper.
BTW, have you ever considered that you might be a more effective promoter of your views if you adopted or cultivated a more civil persona?
And who else would dare to give you such advice? 😉
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Speaking of "obsession", what do you think of @Suzianne's obsessive replies to my posts?
On my side, I often just delete the notifications re: her replies with no qualms at all.
Therefore, on balance, it seems she is quite a bit more obsessive than me.
P.S. -- I did remember that some of the regulars here were members of the Misfits clan and therefore might have been unwilling to say anything against Fearless Leader, but just the other day I saw that she is now the only member of that clan. I won't ask what happened there. And sure, the same could be said about my clan -- which I had the misfortune of starting in the midst of a gamesmanship controversy. Well, my thoughts are trailing off into the fog now, but I guess that's what I had to say.