Closed Mindedness

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I don't think so.

Than Dan Brown? Really?

Originally posted by Tatarana Crocodilo
But even an atheist can achieve much more from reading the bible than Dan Brown.
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Than Dan Brown? Really?

Is Dan Brown an atheist? I didn't know that.

You know what I mean. An atheist doesn't get much spiritual knowledge out of the bible. Read my post again.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Is Dan Brown an atheist? I didn't know that.

You know what I mean. An atheist doesn't get much spiritual knowledge out of the bible. Read my post again.

Crocodilo's post was about the literary merit of the Bible; yours was a complete tangent.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Crocodilo's post was about the literary merit of the Bible; yours was a complete tangent.

Not even literarily is the bible not very good, as read by us westerners. More like litter...

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Not even literarily is the bible not very good, as read by us westerners. More like litter...

That's purely a question of taste. De gustibus non est disputandum.

It's a bit arrogant of you to speak on behalf of 'us westerners', don't you think?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
That's purely a question of taste. De gustibus non est disputandum.

It's a bit arrogant of you to speak on behalf of 'us westerners', don't you think?

No, I'm not. Most of us westerners don't read the bible not translated. Some translations are very bad. So the most of us haven't seen the bible unlittered. In its full glory, so to say.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
No, I'm not. Most of us westerners don't read the bible not translated. Some translations are very bad. So the most of us haven't seen the bible unlittered. In its full glory, so to say.

I don't know what you mean by 'unlittered'. I thought you used 'litter' in the sense of rubbish, now I'm not sure.

But your argument doesn't hold water. Whether or not most 'Westerners' (how do you define that anyway?) have read the Bible in translation (a fair assumption) doesn't affect the literary merits of the Bible! That would be like saying that poor translations of Catullus annull the merits of his poetry -- an absurd statement.

Of course, there's nothing stopping you from getting a decent translation and a concordance, if you're really keen to engage with them. Besides which, the literary merits of, say, the King James translation are not greatly affected by translation errors. You could say that the Bible, in its metastases, contains an abundance of literatures.

The Bible is a classic. Classics aren't to everyone's taste. Nor is Beethoven! So what?

Originally posted by Tatarana Crocodilo
Not to mention that, apart from its religious content, some of the books in the bible are the best (or some of the best) literary work of mankind in ancient times.

You might get away with 'some of the best' but 'the best' is surely bias on your part. Even within the context of Hebrew writings of the time, I am sure there are other books with equal or better literary value that did not make it into the Bible. If we go further afield and look at the writings of other cultures I do not think an independent judge would put any of the Books of the Bible at the top of the list in terms of literary value.
We should also consider the fact that a large quantity of literary work from that period has been lost to us.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I don't think so.

There are innumerables of weak formulations in the bible, paradoxes, and inconsistencies. In order to believe the bible, then you have to believe it in the first place, and then you don't have to read it. As many christians don't.

I enjoy more reading my dear 'Calculus A'. It doesn't bring up anything without carefully explain the ...[text shortened]... e in Bagdad. But to expect to find The Divine Truth in the bible? No, that's futile.

Your example of a calculus book does not fit well, since I was saying of the literary qualities of the bible. I'm sure that, even if very well written, your calculus book will not be able to surpass the bible in that field.

Originally posted by twhitehead
You might get away with 'some of the best' but 'the best' is surely bias on your part. Even within the context of Hebrew writings of the time, I am sure there are other books with equal or better literary value that did not make it into the Bible. If we go further afield and look at the writings of other cultures I do not think an independent judge would ...[text shortened]... nsider the fact that a large quantity of literary work from that period has been lost to us.

If you want an independent judge than I can provide you with one. Is Harold Bloom enough for you?

In terms of ancient writings, he puts the Homer texts and some of the book bibles, specially Job, side by side as the greatest works of ancient times.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I do not think an independent judge would put any of the Books of the Bible at the top of the list in terms of literary value.

Not betraying your bias here I trust? 🙂 I'd ask why not but it seems pointless -- it's hard to imagine what criteria would be used to form that list. How would you attempt to rank the Psalms against the Homeric Hymns?

Originally posted by Tatarana Crocodilo
If you want an independent judge than I can provide you with one. Is Harold Bloom enough for you?

In terms of ancient writings, he puts the Homer texts and some of the book bibles, specially Job, side by side as the greatest works of ancient times.

Strictly speaking, I think it's impossible to say anything more than that they were the literary high points of their respective cultures -- enough to make them great, I think, insofar as that is meaningful, but not helpful in choosing the winners of a talent contest!

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Not betraying your bias here I trust? 🙂 I'd ask why not but it seems pointless -- it's hard to imagine what criteria would be used to form that list. How would you attempt to rank the Psalms against the Homeric Hymns?

perhaps in terms of resonance, as in their accumulative effect upon the adherent, I mean how many persons have been moved to go into inner Africa to disseminate Homeric Hymns?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
perhaps in terms of resonance, as in their accumulative effect upon the adherent, I mean how many persons have been moved to go into inner Africa to disseminate Homeric Hymns?

Nah.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Nah.

Lol, ok, it was worth a try