20 Dec 19
Just watching the forums here and have seen a few comments on the trinity or ones who believe it lately.
It amazes me they express their understanding or version of it and how seemingly without really hearing what they are saying, it in fact actually hurts in their attempt to convince others of it.
For example this was said: "Christ was totally satisfied in His Father. He kept essence of the commandment that He loved His Father with all His soul, all His strength, all His mind, and all His heart and entire being. It is evident that because His Father was supreme and He was totally satisfied in Him that he never coveted because the BEST He was never without - His Father."
So a very nice and clear viewpoint I would think. I'm OK with it.
But......how in the world can this explanation be in ones mind when they believe in the trinity doctrine?
How could oneself be or not be satisfied with himself is he was himself God? God, Jehovah is a perfect spirit being on any level we could ever imagine. But could Jesus have sinned if he had decided too? He could have but he didn't.
At anytime when he was human on earth he could have backed out of the reason he came to earth. In fact when we was about to die he prayed to his Father Jehovah for strength.
Why would he have the need to do this if he were indeed part of this 3 Godhead? The common explanation of the trinity is that all 3 are all equal, all knowing, all powerful. All equal!!!
So again why did Jesus need his Father, if Jesus is God?
@galveston75 saidRather than argue the nitty-gritty in a kind of misleading isolation, you should just go the whole hog and promote the NWT translation in which your non-stock non-profit corporation commissioned a version of the Bible in the mid-C20th, which was translated by a team of mostly non-experts with a predetermined aim and instructions, which was to deliberately change the text in countless places in order to suit its own theological bias.
Just watching the forums here and have seen a few comments on the trinity or ones who believe it lately.
It amazes me they express their understanding or version of it and how seemingly without really hearing what they are saying, it in fact actually hurts in their attempt to convince others of it.
To mainstream Christians, the NWT translation misrepresents the person and work of Christ and supports your organization's main unique selling point which is to deny the deity of Jesus. It is your version of the Bible you should be promoting lock stock and barrel rather than wandering out into the weeds talking rather misleadingly about "the Trinity".
21 Dec 19
@galveston75 saidHave you actually heard anyone who acknowledges the Trinity say this, or is this something others who don't believe in the Trinity say about it?
Just watching the forums here and have seen a few comments on the trinity or ones who believe it lately.
It amazes me they express their understanding or version of it and how seemingly without really hearing what they are saying, it in fact actually hurts in their attempt to convince others of it.
For example this was said: "Christ was totally satisfied in His Fat ...[text shortened]... all knowing, all powerful. All equal!!!
So again why did Jesus need his Father, if Jesus is God?
"The common explanation of the trinity is that all 3 are all equal, all knowing, all powerful. All equal!!! "
21 Dec 19
@galveston75 said
Just watching the forums here and have seen a few comments on the trinity or ones who believe it lately.
It amazes me they express their understanding or version of it and how seemingly without really hearing what they are saying, it in fact actually hurts in their attempt to convince others of it.
For example this was said: "Christ was totally satisfied in His Fat ...[text shortened]... all knowing, all powerful. All equal!!!
So again why did Jesus need his Father, if Jesus is God?
Small talk about it.
21 Dec 19
@kellyjay saidhttps://www.christianity.com/god/trinity/god-in-three-persons-a-doctrine-we-barely-understand-11634405.html
Have you actually heard anyone who acknowledges the Trinity say this, or is this something others who don't believe in the Trinity say about it?
"The common explanation of the trinity is that all 3 are all equal, all knowing, all powerful. All equal!!! "
21 Dec 19
@kellyjay saidUnbelievable.
[youtube] u0JpwOSKRC0 [/youtube]
Small talk about it.
Why did Jesus not tell anyone on earth while he had 30+ years to tell anyone, even just one person that the belief of all of God's people up to the time Jesus was still alive and teaching, and say" Hey y'all, I need to clear something up that y'all have had all wrong from Adam to me is that God is not the God you think he is. He really isn't (1) God that Moses and all the other bible writers says he is. So let me clear this up. We is actually a 3 in 1 being. We are really not anything like you humans, even though I said you were and were made after us, this 3 in 1 being.""
Never, never, never, once did he say he was God much less God Almighty nor did any of the apostles ever say anything remotely like that?!!!!!!!
Why didn't he take the time to explain this new teaching and one that was such a serious thing to need to know according to the idiots running the churches later on, if you didn't accept it a couple hundred years later you'd be put to death by being burned on a stake?
Explain why Jesus never once even slightly mentioned that new news of this mysterious 3 in 1 Godhead?
@galveston75 saidIncorrect, Jesus said, and I quote him:
Never, never, never, once did he say he was God much less God Almighty nor did any of the apostles ever say anything remotely like that?!!!!!!!
“I and the Father are one”
“When you have seen me, you have seen the Father”
Pretty clear I would say.
However also have Isaiah saying:
“For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end”
Now I expect that you are going to launch into your Watchtower brief about “Mighty God” not being “Almighty God”, but you shouldn’t because the last time you did this (a few years ago with Robbie Carrobie in tow) it ended up with you and he claiming that Jesus is “Mighty God” and Jehovah is “Almighty God” and subsequently this cascade of doctrinal drain-block...
JWs believe ...
- Jesus and Jehovah are completely separate beings
- there are two Gods, Jesus (Mighty) and Jehovah (Almighty)
- two saviours, Jesus and Jehovah
- Jesus is also an angel, called Michael
- this angel is also one of our saviours
I also refer you back to FMF’s post which you seem to have ignored.
21 Dec 19
@galveston75 saidPeople who believe in the deity of Jesus can agree or disagree about the theology of "the Trinity" but I don't really see how people who believe in the deity of Jesus can discuss "the Trinity" with people who don't believe in the deity of Jesus. Surely the real issue is who you believe Jesus is and how that is confirmed only by your organization's customized version of the Bible?
Just watching the forums here and have seen a few comments on the trinity or ones who believe it lately.
21 Dec 19
2 edits
@galveston75 saidRead it, does that answer my question to you? In order to disagree about something we at least have to define what it is we are disagreeing on. Right now what is being claimed is the doctrine of the Trinity isn't the one I believe. Did you watch that little speech?
https://www.christianity.com/god/trinity/god-in-three-persons-a-doctrine-we-barely-understand-11634405.html
21 Dec 19
@galveston75 saidDid you watch the video?
Unbelievable.
Why did Jesus not tell anyone on earth while he had 30+ years to tell anyone, even just one person that the belief of all of God's people up to the time Jesus was still alive and teaching, and say" Hey y'all, I need to clear something up that y'all have had all wrong from Adam to me is that God is not the God you think he is. He really isn't (1) God that ...[text shortened]... xplain why Jesus never once even slightly mentioned that new news of this mysterious 3 in 1 Godhead?
21 Dec 19
@galveston75 saidJesus said He was the Son of man, and claimed He was Lord of the Sabbath, we know God gave the 10 Commandments.
Unbelievable.
Why did Jesus not tell anyone on earth while he had 30+ years to tell anyone, even just one person that the belief of all of God's people up to the time Jesus was still alive and teaching, and say" Hey y'all, I need to clear something up that y'all have had all wrong from Adam to me is that God is not the God you think he is. He really isn't (1) God that ...[text shortened]... xplain why Jesus never once even slightly mentioned that new news of this mysterious 3 in 1 Godhead?
Mark 2:27-28 English Standard Version (ESV)
And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.”
Also every Jew knew who said, "I am"
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
When Jesus said this, there was no doubt what those who heard Him knew what He was saying.
John 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
In the Old Testament it was clear people had to go to the Temple and it was there that the Holy of Holy was. A specific place that could only be entered once a year by a specific person, under specific conditions. This was it, God's place where He put His name.
That changed with Jesus Christ, the curtain in the Temple that kept man and God apart was torn from top to bottom when Jesus died, from Heaven to earth, God did that! So our relationship with God was changed, what kept us from God our sin had been dealt with by God for us in the blood of Jesus Christ, while we were yet sinners.
Mark 15:38
And the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom.
So when Jesus was talking about wherever two or three would gather in His name was claiming He was going to be there. Have you thought that statement through? Where and when now in His name He was going to be there, not just at the Temple! Our entrance to God was made wide open by God for God.
Matthew 18: English Standard Version (ESV)
Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”
The only way this statement of Jesus could be true is if Jesus was throughout time and everywhere at once.
21 Dec 19
@kellyjay saidStop pointing people to videos you like, it’s intellectually lazy. Instead make a point, make a coherent argument yourself.
Did you watch the video?
21 Dec 19
@kellyjay saidI really don’t see how any of this demonstrates a three-person godhead. The problem you have of course is that there isn’t one and you will never convince a JW otherwise.
Jesus said He was the Son of man, and claimed He was Lord of the Sabbath, we know God gave the 10 Commandments.
Mark 2:27-28 English Standard Version (ESV)
And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.”
Also every Jew knew who said, "I am"
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” ...[text shortened]... ly way this statement of Jesus could be true is if Jesus was throughout time and everywhere at once.
21 Dec 19
@medullah saidWhat an odd stance it is you seem to be adopting. This is a debate forum about spiritual matters.
Where does the debate profit anyone?