1. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Jun '11 16:31
    Here is a quote from RJHinds in the thread "Making an example out of the unfortunate":

    I do not help people because they are poor. I do not believe it
    is my fault they are poor. So it does not matter to me if a person
    is rich or poor. I will only help a person if I feel like helping them.
    I do not believe Jesus requires me to help the poor before He will
    save me. I believe He will save me because I believe He is the Son
    of God and He has the power to raise me from the dead. I believe I
    have to treat other people the way I would like them to treat me.
    Nothing more than that. The poor should work to earn money so they
    are not poor. It is not my responsiblity to give them money for nothing.
    I do not owe anyone anything because they are poor.


    Is this a common philosophy among modern Christians, or is RJHinds an exception?
    Is this not totally contrary to everything Christ stood for?
    Is not this very much like the modus operandi of the Rich Man in Christ's story of the Rich Man and Lazarus?
  2. Joined
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    09 Jun '11 17:48
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Here is a quote from RJHinds in the thread "Making an example out of the unfortunate":

    [quote]I do not help people because they are poor. I do not believe it
    is my fault they are poor. So it does not matter to me if a person
    is rich or poor. I will only help a person if I feel like helping them.
    I do not believe Jesus requires me to help the poor be ...[text shortened]... y much like the modus operandi of the Rich Man in Christ's story of the Rich Man and Lazarus?
    I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.
    Adolf Hitler

    Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/adolf_hitler.html#ixzz1OnnWEXSs


    what do you think? is this a common philosphy among modern germans or is adolf hitler an exception?
  3. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Jun '11 17:57
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.
    Adolf Hitler

    Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/adolf_hitler.html#ixzz1OnnWEXSs


    what do you think? is this a common philosphy among modern germans or is adolf hitler an exception?
    I think you will be surprised how many Christians actually think along the same lines as RJHinds.
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    09 Jun '11 18:05
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I think you will be surprised how many Christians actually think along the same lines as RJHinds.
    they are not christians.

    like nazis from WWII germany were not like the other germans
  5. Donationrwingett
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    09 Jun '11 18:12
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    they are not christians.

    like nazis from WWII germany were not like the other germans
    ...not like other Germans. But the Nazis were still Germans. The question is whether RJHinds' callous disregard for Matthew 25:31-46 means that he is not a Christian, or whether he is just a different kind of Christian.
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    09 Jun '11 18:46
    Originally posted by rwingett
    ...not like other Germans. But the Nazis were still Germans. The question is whether RJHinds' callous disregard for Matthew 25:31-46 means that he is not a Christian, or whether he is just a different kind of Christian.
    Is he "True Christian", "Christian©" or "Christian™"
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    09 Jun '11 20:372 edits
    =====================================
    I do not help people because they are poor. I do not believe it
    is my fault they are poor.
    ===============================


    There is nothing wrong with helping a person because that person is needy.
    Sometimes I help a person because that person is poor.

    It does not have to be my fault. It does not have to be anyone's fault.
    There is just a need there and one's heart is moved to assist.

    There is no need to rationalize that "Since it is not my fault, I need not care."

    =====================================
    So it does not matter to me if a person
    is rich or poor. I will only help a person if I feel like helping them.
    ======================================


    That is fine. But someone helped you sometime, probably because you had the need and they could meet the need.

    So the way you decide to act may not have always been the way others acted towards you. You can give thanks for that.


    ===============================
    I do not believe Jesus requires me to help the poor before He will
    save me.
    =================================


    Neither do I believe that charity will justify a person for eternal redemption.

    ===================================
    I believe He will save me because I believe He is the Son
    of God and He has the power to raise me from the dead.
    ===================================


    That is true. Then again the word "saved" can take on different meanings in the New Testament. And though I am saved from eternal perdition I still need to be "saved" from anxiety, greed, self centeredness, looseness with finances, stingyness, and many things.

    I need to be saved from not living Christ in a moment by moment way. For Christ always does the right thing in the right way at the right time. I need to be saved from letting my personal philosophy or cultural outlook on life get in the way of Him spontaneously doing things through me.

    Christ does the right thing though, at the right time, in the right way with the right motive. So I need to learn to abide in Him in more and more areas of living.

    ===========================
    I believe I have to treat other people the way I would like them to treat me.
    Nothing more than that. The poor should work to earn money so they
    are not poor.
    =============================


    There are a lot of philosophies of life. I really want to learn to live through Christ.

    Sometimes there are moments when living through Christ rubs against my personal philosophy of life.

    ====================================
    It is not my responsiblity to give them money for nothing.
    I do not owe anyone anything because they are poor.
    ====================================


    We all have a domestic logic which we lived by before we were saved. This is out philosohy of life. This could be our national philosophy or our homegrown logic. This is the logics we used to survive in this world. We needed these various logics to survive.

    These were the rules of culture that enfluenced how we thought, acted, and related to people. Then one day we got Christ the living Person into us. Jesus in His resurrection state came to live in us.

    Now we Christians are in the process of learning to live by Him. He always does the right thing with the right motive. Sometimes it seems to go along with our personal philosophy and the Lord may say "Do not be foolish with your giving". Then at another time the Lord may say "Do not withold what you have."


    I don't want to just use the Gospel to validate my developed cultural philosophy. I want to learn to let the Lord flow out the way He wants to. And sometimes I have to stand against myself. Sometimes I have to deny myself to allow the Lord to flow out in a way that may be against my personal cultural philosophy.

    This is a life long learning process. But I want to come to the point that I can say with Paul "For me to live is Christ ...". Then people will find me living the Person of Christ rather than my cultural logic or pre-salvation philosophy of life.

    With all our giving it is Jesus who should be imparted also with any material support.
  8. Standard memberSoothfast
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    09 Jun '11 21:082 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999

    Is this not totally contrary to everything Christ stood for?
    It is. Jesus was actually a pretty swell guy. It's his hypocritical "followers" I have a problem with.

    Jesus taught that you should treat even the lowliest human the same as you would treat him. And that makes a lot of sense.
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Jun '11 22:29
    Originally posted by Soothfast
    It is. Jesus was actually a pretty swell guy. It's his hypocritical "followers" I have a problem with.

    Jesus taught that you should treat even the lowliest human the same as you would treat him. And that makes a lot of sense.
    You like Christ and his philosophy. Then I guess it would be an easy matter for you to walk in His footsteps. Thats a definite plus. Maybe you should take advantage of it. Dont condemn Christianity because of a few selfish jerks.
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Jun '11 23:36
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    they are not christians.
    Jaywill it seems, has written [more or less] in support of RJHinds stance re the poor.
    Are you saying that Jaywill is not a Christian ?
  11. Standard memberKellyJay
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    10 Jun '11 00:53
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Here is a quote from RJHinds in the thread "Making an example out of the unfortunate":

    [quote]I do not help people because they are poor. I do not believe it
    is my fault they are poor. So it does not matter to me if a person
    is rich or poor. I will only help a person if I feel like helping them.
    I do not believe Jesus requires me to help the poor be ...[text shortened]... y much like the modus operandi of the Rich Man in Christ's story of the Rich Man and Lazarus?
    You should care for those you can, loving your neighbor does not always mean
    you have to give them money, some times it is your time, it is you that is
    really needed, a shoulder to cry on and ear to listen with, being there when it
    really does matter. You should treat others as you'd like to be treated, being
    poor is not the lone requirment for help, because anyone can need help, and all
    are very important to God. The thing I hate about people blasting the rich all of
    the time is they dehumanize people as if they are no longer worthy of any
    grace, mercy, love, or fair treatment.
    Kelly
  12. Standard memberKellyJay
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    10 Jun '11 00:54
    Originally posted by Soothfast
    It is. Jesus was actually a pretty swell guy. It's his hypocritical "followers" I have a problem with.

    Jesus taught that you should treat even the lowliest human the same as you would treat him. And that makes a lot of sense.
    Well as the saying goes, you find a church full of perfect people and join it,
    it will no longer be filled with perfect people. Who do you think needs saved
    by grace the perfect among us?
    Kelly
  13. Standard memberRajk999
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    10 Jun '11 01:19
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    You should care for those you can, loving your neighbor does not always mean
    you have to give them money, some times it is your time, it is you that is
    really needed, a shoulder to cry on and ear to listen with, being there when it
    really does matter. You should treat others as you'd like to be treated, being
    poor is not the lone requirment for help, be ...[text shortened]... ze people as if they are no longer worthy of any
    grace, mercy, love, or fair treatment.
    Kelly
    Nothing you say here sounds Christlike. What kind of Christian are you?
  14. Standard membermenace71
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    10 Jun '11 04:122 edits
    The book of James kinda sums it up about not favoring the rich or not showing them partiality at least. Also about works we show our faith by our works. Like it says what good is it to say to a hungry person go be well or filled and yet not provide anything for that person? Also it is our obligation to love our neighbor as ourselves.

    Manny
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    10 Jun '11 08:16
    Originally posted by rwingett
    ...not like other Germans. But the Nazis were still Germans. The question is whether RJHinds' callous disregard for Matthew 25:31-46 means that he is not a Christian, or whether he is just a different kind of Christian.
    different kind of christian ISN'T a christian. it is different. you can't still correspond to a concept if you have different characteristics. it would be like someone eating meat but still call himself a vegetarian.
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