@suzianne saidWhat do you know? The dumb ass bitch strikes again.
Why do you persist in being angry at people and spilling your toxic angst all over every thread you take part in?
You start a thread and people try to communicate. You call them names. How is this congenial, adult conversation? Perhaps you should stop torturing yourself and just let it go.
Galatians 1
I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
Bold was mine to emphasise that the Bible warns against the angel that brought the distorted gospel, if an angel actually led Joseph Smith.
@eladar saidA straight answer; well done. That wasn't so difficult after all, was it? As for boldness ...
Galatians 1
I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we,[b] or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accu ...[text shortened]... le warns against the angel that brought the distorted gospel, if an angel actually led Joseph Smith.
"Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness, considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted." [Gal. 6:1 KJV]
One thought leads to another, so I started a tangential thread (about the trustworthiness of angels). Feel free to contribute.
@eladar saidThis is also directly applicable to Islam where we have (allegedly) the Angel Gabriel giving the Koran to Mohammed.
Galatians 1
I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we,[b] or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accu ...[text shortened]... le warns against the angel that brought the distorted gospel, if an angel actually led Joseph Smith.
They say that the first time that Mohammed received the Koran, he ran out of the presence of the false Gabriel, thinking that it was a demon... Only after he became comfortable with the idea did he go back to the cave and receive the text from Gabriel (forgive me if I am botching some of this).
But, in the words of dear spiritually enlightened friend... he was right the first time.
@philokalia saidChristianity also has other take-it-or-leave-it/don't believe it at-your-supposed-peril moments - not unlike Gabriel giving the Koran to Muhammed - like Paul's decision to write a huge chunk of the NT after what he claimed was a vision, and also Revelation being tacked on the end after someone or other supposedly had a dream or a vision and wrote it down. Paul. the writer-of-Revelation, Muhammed, Joseph Smith. They all have something in common.
This is also directly applicable to Islam where we have (allegedly) the Angel Gabriel giving the Koran to Mohammed.
@fmf saidAnd then there is the atheist position:
Christianity also has other take-it-or-leave-it/don't believe it at-your-supposed-peril moments - not unlike Gabriel giving the Koran to Muhammed - like Paul's decision to write a huge chunk of the NT after what he claimed was a vision, and also Revelation being tacked on the end after someone or other supposedly had a dream or a vision and wrote it down. Paul. the writer-of-Revelation, Muhammed, Joseph Smith. They all have something in common.
Mormonism, Islam, and Christianity can all be treated as identical phenomena in spite of the fact that they are all qualitatively different in their claims and relations to the truth.
If you turn the nihilist sword upon the scientists and politicians and even yourself, you'll get the same result...
Only, I imagine, that there is far more to the famous prophets and religious figures of yesteryear than there is to the armies of neckbeards on the internet wolfing down Sam Harris videos and batting at balls of theological yarn like kittens.
@philokalia saidThey are all identical in that they are based on unverifiable claims that a creator God has revealed a scheme of instructions - including rewards and punishments - which renders moot the fact that they are all qualitatively different in their claims and relations to the supposed truth.
Mormonism, Islam, and Christianity can all be treated as identical phenomena in spite of the fact that they are all qualitatively different in their claims and relations to the truth.
@philokalia saidThe existence of "famous prophets and religious figures of yesteryear" does not alter the fact that Paul, Mr Somebody who wrote Revelation, Muhammed, and Joseph Smith were all involved in moments and alleged events around which their admirers or subscribers believe pretty much all truth about supernatural things revolves, to the exclusion of each other. Seems manmade to its core and not divine at all.
Only, I imagine, that there is far more to the famous prophets and religious figures of yesteryear than there is to the armies of neckbeards on the internet wolfing down Sam Harris videos and batting at balls of theological yarn like kittens.
@philokalia saidI don't see how it's "nihilist". Do I believe that the dead Jesus dictated the content of the Book of Revelation to someone? No, I don't. Do I believe the Muhammed in the cave story? No, I don't. Do I believe what Joseph Smith is said to have 'revealed'? No.
If you turn the nihilist sword upon the scientists and politicians and even yourself, you'll get the same result...
Nihilism is the rejection of all religious and moral principles and is the belief that life is meaningless. I don't believe life is meaningless. And I don't reject all religious and moral principles.
You keep using the word "nihilist" when you talk to me but you do so as if you either don't know what it means or as if you can't be bothered to read my posts on morality or what I believe regarding the meaning that life has.
@fmf saidFirst off, congratulations -- it took a while for me to see it again, but finally seeing that 5 likes in the middle of a big thread in 1-2 hours when it's the middle of the night in the USA numbers again. How you pull it off, I'll never know.
They are all identical in that they are based on unverifiable claims that a creator God has revealed a scheme of instructions - including rewards and punishments - which renders moot the fact that they are all qualitatively different in their claims and relations to the supposed truth.
Big ups.
---
Are they based off of unverifiable claims? Of course, aspects of them are, but the common argument is that there was a whole series of miracles surrounding the life and testimony of Jesus Christ that were witnessed by thousands that became his loyal followers.
This is not exactly how it happened with the Prophet Mohammed. I believe the only claim to a miracle is the Koran itself as the miracle, though there are some legends about Mohammed's birth and death.
The Koran and the Bible include what some would argue are errors. In fact, I would agree with the assessment that the Koran is not correct -- the misattribution of the Trinity as Jesus, God, and Mary is what I like to point to, just likes Dr. James White.
But I understand that it is more complicated than that...
Whereas, Joseph Smith was a known conman and the Book of Mormon has many errors in it that are very huge categorical errors, such as implying that there were horses in the New World when there were none and there has been no archaeological evidence of it.
... Not only this, but the messages of these religions can be seen as likewise very different from one another.
Now, why you would equate them is beyond me -- I guess it's just being lazy, which I actually don't get: you have boasted of your insane post count before. I'd consider dedicating some of that time to crafting large, masterful, and exhaustive posts on the topic.
@fmf saidSo you say that you do not believe that life is meaningless.
I don't see how it's "nihilist". Do I believe that the dead Jesus dictated the content of the Book of Revelation to someone? No, I don't. Do I believe the Muhammed in the cave story? No, I don't. Do I believe what Joseph Smith is said to have 'revealed'? No.
Nihilism is the rejection of all religious and moral principles and is the belief that life is meaningless. I don't bel ...[text shortened]... an't be bothered to read my posts on morality or what I believe regarding the meaning that life has.
Then what is the meaning within life?
What is life progressing towrds?
Let me guess: it's just all about the subjective meaning that you can muster up to ascribe to life, and that is the stand-in for real meaning?
@philokalia saidI gather that I am a valued and respected poster.
First off, congratulations -- it took a while for me to see it again, but finally seeing that 5 likes in the middle of a big thread in 1-2 hours when it's the middle of the night in the USA numbers again. How you pull it off, I'll never know.
@philokalia saidSee the long, long and numerous threads where it has been discussed in detail and where I have shared my views cogently and with candour. I am not typing it out again just for you. Suffice to say, I am not a "nihilist".
So you say that you do not believe that life is meaningless.
Then what is the meaning within life?