Conscious of ones spiritual needs

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ok, you seem to be saying that one receives understanding, wisdom etc through
communion with God, via the medium of prayer. Is that an accurate portrayal of your
position? If so it appears to me to be entirely Biblical, although, I suspect , that with
like most prayers, one must do ones own part in harmony with the petition 🙂

Robbie,

I think when we seek God with all our heart, mind and soul he meets us where we are at. If we seek, we will find. So there is no confusion, I am speaking of the God of the bible and Jesus Christ his son. My church's message today was about what we are talking about. We broadcast throughout the world in over a hundred countries. The new series is about Treasure.

Check out this website and listen in if you wish, our pastor is from South Africa.

www.tfhny.org , you can choose from many service times as it broadcasts to meet other time zones throughout the week. There is even an apple app with the same messages and music.

-k

Originally posted by Suzianne
Dear robbbie, I am accustomed to speak with clarity, so as not to be misunderstood. I do not speak softly with the voice of Satan, tempting us with his wiles, his promises that we too can be God. This is what beguiled Eve in the garden, this *exact* type of "gentleness".

No. I will NOT go gentle into that good night. Sorry.

Dear Suzianne, Taoman appears to me not to be trying to subvert our faith in the
Christ nor in Gods word. Yes he follows his own path, where you and I have a map
and a guide, but who is to say that he will also not reach the summit? It is also
interesting to note that I have also heard the same statement from professing
Christians that the Kingdom is within us, coming from Christ's statement that, 'the
Kingdom of God is in your midst'. Of course they seem to forget that Christ was
speaking to his enemies when he uttered this, but they do have a kind of mystical
perception of the indwelling of the Holy spirit as jaywill used to call it, which they
sincerely believes results in a spiritual regeneration of the person they are inside do
they not?

I agree one does not tend to reason with a rattle snake, but i hardly think that
Taoman was deliberately trying to subvert anyone's faith and was simple expressing
his thoughts and ideas as to how he satisfies his spiritual need. We do not need of
course adopt the same approach, but if we are going to become 'all things to all
people', as the apostle counsels us, we at least need to try to understand their
position, don't you think?

Originally posted by googlefudge
I have a question...

Why do you assume that everyone has 'spiritual needs'?

Everyone does not think alike.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/dr/generalizing_from_one_example/

Generally it has been my observation that humans thrive upon being loved and feeling
loved, to being commended rather than overtly criticised, to be accepted rather than
ostracised, to understand rather than be in a state of confusion, to attain to knowledge
rather than ignorance, to apply that knowledge so as to act wisely, to have a sense of
purpose rather than be a slave to mundane routine etc etc etc this is my
understanding of a spiritual needs. If you think that all persons do not exhibit the need
for these things then clearly your observations are different from mine, generally
speaking. I have not stated that every one thinks alike.

Originally posted by kd2acz
Robbie,

I think when we seek God with all our heart, mind and soul he meets us where we are at. If we seek, we will find. So there is no confusion, I am speaking of the God of the bible and Jesus Christ his son. My church's message today was about what we are talking about. We broadcast throughout the world in over a hundred countries. The new series ...[text shortened]... zones throughout the week. There is even an apple app with the same messages and music.

-k

dude i don't mean to be rude but i went there and clicked on treasure and I got a message,

“The Incredible Treasure Hunt!”
Enter for a chance to win $1000!

we are looking for three families to enter the amazing race etc etc

is this the treasure you are referring to or have i got the wrong site?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
dude i don't mean to be rude but i went there and clicked on treasure and I got a message,

“The Incredible Treasure Hunt!”
Enter for a chance to win $1000!

we are looking for three families to enter the amazing race etc etc

is this the treasure you are referring to or have i got the wrong site?

No, you will have to look for live church. There are 4 services on Sunday and they are broadcasted to the Internet, what you are talking about is something else.

Try www.tfhny.tv sorry

Originally posted by Suzianne
Dear robbbie, I am accustomed to speak with clarity, so as not to be misunderstood. I do not speak softly with the voice of Satan, tempting us with his wiles, his promises that we too can be God. This is what beguiled Eve in the garden, this *exact* type of "gentleness".

No. I will NOT go gentle into that good night. Sorry.

Because another speaks softly, does not mean they are a talkng snake, a child of "Satan". Who puts these distorted fears in your mind? Although, as you know I do not always "speak sofly", I am open in disagreeing and arguing as to why certain historically conditioned viewpoints in the Christian Church are unhelpful both for itself and others. I too, do not use subterfuge, I speak plainly.

I know robbie, like you, is a committed Christian. He is a Jehovah's Witness, if I am not mistaken. They are out there enough to have got thrown into gas ovens with the Jews and gays. I admire their tenacity of belief, some of which are quite honourable. For all their 'unusual' beliefs they stood against Hitler and died for it. I am sure robbie is brawny enough and streetwise enough to deal with this old 'snake'.

I do not want either of you to uproot your "way". I simply wish for your own advancement, for you to be more reflective and open, the rest will take care of itself. ONLY accept a changed viewpoint on certain things (if you have the courage to differ from others) that makes sense to you, definitely not because I or anyone else says something. This is spiritual maturity. Is your faith so fragile you must call out "Satan" and run at the first sign of difference of opinion? I think you do so because some of what I am saying makes sense, - heaven forbid.

robbie is able to do that more at present and so we can talk respectfully to each other despite our great difference of other viewpoints.

I say it differently but your faith does have its groundings. I am not a reductionist materialistic scientist, who believes it all chance, etc. I too see the wonders of our life, see that which is "transcendent" and rejoice and seek to promote compassion, not hatred. That is not the mark of a devil, Suzianne. It is just a mark of difference of view.

As robbie says and many other wise ones from all paths, it is the same "mountain", we are just coming via a different path. I know also your religion (a particular interpretation of it anyway) states yours is the only way and the god-man Jesus is the only one. Respectfully I disagree and strongly, but is there not other good things we can share and learn? These things I talk about are the basis behind all religions and spirituality, including your own.

Originally posted by Suzianne
"God is in you, so we are all God."
"The Kingdom of Heaven is within."

Baloney.

I satisfy my spiritual needs through prayer, a communion with a higher power. Yes, a *higher* power, that of the Creator, a being outside of myself. I submit to God. I do not create God. I am not God. I pray in Jesus' name, for He is the connector, without sin, the o ...[text shortened]... ous. This is the voice of Satan, trying to convince us to eat of the fruit all over again.

Your views are even more baloneious

Originally posted by Suzianne
Dear robbbie, I am accustomed to speak with clarity, so as not to be misunderstood. I do not speak softly with the voice of Satan, tempting us with his wiles, his promises that we too can be God. This is what beguiled Eve in the garden, this *exact* type of "gentleness".

No. I will NOT go gentle into that good night. Sorry.

And why should we choose your superstitions over others?

I am dead against superstitions and taboo. All this Satan talk is just baloney to me.
You appear to be a very real, intelligent, worldly lady and yet when confronted by a different viewpoint on "God" , you clam up and start acting like any other silly fundie out there . It is clear to me that you are made totally uncomfortable when challenged on any of your entrenched beliefs.

I totally agree with Taoman. Not only has he presented an alternate view of "God", he has also presented a view which tips it's hat towards Christianity and the virtues of practising such a religion.
Now if only you would be open to accepting that people like Taoman are always going to have different views than you but can totally get along with Christians ,(or I dare say any other peaceful religions), then we could all feel a bit more comfortable when speaking (and just living life in general).

How you think that Buddhism could be the work of Satan is beyond me.
If you actually studied it, I think you would find that their adherence to (universal) virtues coincides very much with many Christian virtues.
Certainly Buddhists don't persecute anyone - and you know what - you can even celebrate Xmas , goto a Christian church and even pray with Christians and still be a good Buddhist.

There is no beguiling going on here. The Buddha came to alleviate our suffering, in the here and the now. Jesus came to save us sometime down the track.
I don't know about you, but I personally would love to ease some suffering in the world now than be saved later at some unknown hour by some largely unknown (possibly unreal) agent.
Buddhism says that the Buddha resides in all things and that birth into a human form is a very blessed thing and should not be wasted. We have much work to do NOW. I'm sure JC would understand.

Originally posted by Taoman
Because another speaks softly, does not mean they are a talkng snake, a child of "Satan". Who puts these distorted fears in your mind? Although, as you know I do not always "speak sofly", I am open in disagreeing and arguing as to why certain historically conditioned viewpoints in the Christian Church are unhelpful both for itself and others. I too, do not us ...[text shortened]... about are the basis behind all religions and spirituality, including your own.

I hope you do not think for one moment that i have likened you to a rattle snake, I
could not live with that and must explain that it was simply used to demonstrate
something that is of real danger in contrast to your explanations which are innocuous to
my mind.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I hope you do not think for one moment that i have likened you to a rattle snake, I
could not live with that and must explain that it was simply used to demonstrate
something that is of real danger in contrast to your explanations which are innocuous to
my mind.

No, I was referring to Suzianne's alignment of me with the serpent in the Garden of Eden and ol' Satan. 🙂

Once spirituality is intergrated into what it means to be 'human', such ideas as 'spiritual needs' will just be 'needs' and nothing more.
It should be remembered that there is not that much agreement on what it is to be human except for it's physical aspects.
No doubt people have similarities and totally unique aspects.
The similarities define what it is to be human and it can be argued that from a neutral standpoint all people have the same basic problem(s?).
It is when we discuss the unseen aspects, (including what we term "spiritual" at this time), that we seem to have problems defining ourselves.
Since Spirit pervades everything, it is only in relation to this timeless, unchanging , unmanifest standpoint that we can make any noteworthy remarks regarding humans and their so called spiritual needs.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Once spirituality is intergrated into what it means to be 'human', such ideas as 'spiritual needs' will just be 'needs' and nothing more.
It should be remembered that there is not that much agreement on what it is to be human except for it's physical aspects.
No doubt people have similarities and totally unique aspects.
The similarities define what e can make any noteworthy remarks regarding humans and their so called spiritual needs.

edit: 'Once spirituality is intergrated into what it means to be 'human', such ideas as 'spiritual needs' will just be 'needs' and nothing more.'

Yes, indeed.

='samara' is 'nirvana'.
='within' is 'heaven found'


What we humans ever tend to do is elevate the spiritual, separating it from the mundane. But the expression and expereince of 'spirituality' is found mainly in 'the mundane', because that is where we mainly are and need, kept to church or temple only, we limit. We thereby denigrate great portions of the precious life that has been 'given' to us and separate the holy to somewhere else where it is tends to be isolated and can sometimes be thereby made irrelevant.

And thus the truth in the words of the sermon on the mount:

[I paraphrase and expand the meanings that come to me]

"Blessed are those who do not vaunt their spiritual 'richness', who recognise none of this, who see themselves poor and mundane, for theirs is all the richness of 'heaven'.


'IT' is here, now all the time. If I recognize that and are open to it, (whatever the means of 'transmission' (way)] then I begin to know its riches, if I, on the other hand, think I have it all, (like the full and overflowing cup of the zen master's illustration) the flow is spilt for nothing and I only receive a little, unable to receive more, for I am too full of self and pride of so-called knowing.
Better to know little (caught up in conceptions and ideas) and receive more.