1. Joined
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    11 Jul '09 15:48
    What does this scripture mean at Matt 7:14?
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    11 Jul '09 15:50
    Originally posted by galveston75
    What does this scripture mean at Matt 7:14?
    Only Jehovah Witnesses will find the road to eternal life.
  3. Standard memberKellyJay
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    11 Jul '09 19:13
    Originally posted by galveston75
    What does this scripture mean at Matt 7:14?
    Matthew 7:12-14 (American Standard Version)

    12 All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets.

    13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.

    14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    11 Jul '09 19:20
    Full context

    Matthew 7 (New American Standard Bible)

    Matthew 7
    Judging Others
    1"Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
    2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

    3"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

    4"Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?

    5"You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

    6"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

    7"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
    8"For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

    9"Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?

    10"Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?

    11"If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

    12"In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

    13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
    14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

    15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
    16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

    17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.

    18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

    19"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

    20"So then, you will know them by their fruits.

    21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

    22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

    23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

    24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
    25"And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.

    26"Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

    27"The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell--and great was its fall."

    28When Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at His teaching;

    29for He was teaching them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.
  5. Joined
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    11 Jul '09 19:43
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Full context

    Matthew 7 (New American Standard Bible)

    Matthew 7
    Judging Others
    1"Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
    2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

    3"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own ...[text shortened]... g them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.
    Just the 14 verse will do...
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    11 Jul '09 20:03
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Just the 14 verse will do...
    Lets talk about 15 as well ... beware of false prophets.

    Charles Russel founder of the Jehovah Witnesses is a false prophet.

    Christ's Second Coming. Russell believe that Christ had returned invisibly in 1874, and that he had been ruling from the heavens since that date. He predicted that a period known as the "Gentile Times" would end in 1914, and that Christ would take power of Earth's affairs at that time. He interpreted the outbreak of World War I as the beginning of Armageddon, which he viewed to be both a gradual deterioration of civilized society, and a climactic multi-national attack on a restored Israel accompanied by worldwide anarchy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taze_Russell

    Clearly all those predictions are false and Russell is a false prophet. Christ said to beware of them as they will lead you astray. We can therefore conclude that JWs have been misled by Russell and they cannot therefore be on the straight and narrow road.
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    11 Jul '09 20:205 edits
    did Jesus disciples make mistakes? yes, they did, were they also false prophets? no they were not. did Charles Russell ever claim that he was infallible? no? well then why are you portraying him as if he did? did he preach what he thought was true at the time? yes? one of the distinguishing features of Russell as well as his predecessors is that they have continually honed their understanding of Biblical verses while the majority of Christendom have remained stagnant.

    do Jehovahs Witnesses go from house to house and preach the message of Gods Kingdom as Christ did? now let us ask the same question of you, do you go from house to house and preach Gods kingdom message even as Christ commanded that we should, no then how can you claim to be a Christian, for you are not following the teachings nor the example of Christ, you are simply content to talk the talk and not walk the walk!

    yep another armchair so called Christian pontificating to others about what they believe. yep by their 'works', you will know those men! how do you feel now Mr.big, would be purger of others beliefs? are you also infallible, just you and the pope! yep you can say what you like, but unless you walk the walk, your words are hollow emblems of a hollow faith and wave like a huge banner above every sort of hypocrisy imaginable.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    11 Jul '09 20:30
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    did Jesus disciples make mistakes? yes, they did, were they also false prophets? no they were not. did Charles Russell ever claim that he was infallible? no? well then why are you portraying him as if he did? did he preach what he thought was true at the time? yes? one of the distinguishing features of Russell as well as his predecessors is tha ...[text shortened]... mblems of a hollow faith and wave like a huge banner above every sort of hypocrisy imaginable.
    I have a longer answer to that pile of rubbish you just wrote.
    But for now.... define a false prophet. Thanks.
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    11 Jul '09 20:462 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I have a longer answer to that pile of rubbish you just wrote.
    But for now.... define a false prophet. Thanks.
    pile of rubbish, i don't think so, and you know it, i know it, the whole world knows it, you are a fake! a weed! a talker of the talk and not a walker of the walk! you cannot be a Christian for you do not follow the teachings nor the example of the Christ!

    Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And, look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things. Matthew 28:19,20

    do you Go Raj, let me answer that for you, no you don't, in fact no one with the exception of Jehovahs witnesses have ever come to my home to discuss anything from the Bible, no not one minister of Christendom, not once, not ever.

    how will people here the truth of the bibles message?

    However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach?  How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: “How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!” Romans 10:14,15

    you have a think about that, for when the master returns, what will you say you have done with your 'talent', hidden it?

    Master, I knew you to be an exacting man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you did not winnow. So I grew afraid and went off and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours - Matthew 25:24-25
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    11 Jul '09 20:586 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    [b]did Jesus disciples make mistakes? yes, they did, were they also false prophets? no they were not. did Charles Russell ever claim that he was infallible? no? well then why are you portraying him as if he did? did he preach what he thought was true at the time? yes? one of the distinguishing features of Russell as well as his predecessors is tha n in these predictions. It brought them fame and money. Something to think about I would guess.
    It is one thing, my dear robbie, to say that you have an interpretation of prophecy but another if you say that God has told you directly that this is the way things are to pan out. If you disagree, do you think scripture inspired by God has false prophecies in them? I would think that this would have to be your position. In additoin, howeever, he took pen and paper and made "corrections" to how holy scripture was written much like Mohammad or even Joseph Smith. Then for the kicker the claim was made that Jesus was not God in the flesh, however, seeing that you agree with this teaching I can see how you sympathize with them as well. In fact, they did not even stop there, rather, they them made the claim that Jesus was Michael the archeagnel!! It is inexplicable to say the least.

    I am not just picking on JW's here, rather, I am making a point. In fact, I have even seen "mainstream" Christians make false predictions by saying that God had told them something. Such prophecies should be given wtih an attitude of humility and responsibility. However, people who make "false" predicitons often have a motive. The motive is usually for attention or money and power. So tell us, how did the likes of Charles Russell and Joseph Smith and Mohammad benefit? Were they not revered almost as gods themselves? Compare that to the prophets in the OT who were often killed or persectued for obeying God and relaying his message.

    Having said all that, I think there is one thing we can both agree upon. Once they give a false prediction/prophecy, whoever they may be, all other subsequent predictions should be taken in context of that falsehood.
  11. Standard memberRajk999
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    11 Jul '09 21:00
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    did Jesus disciples make mistakes? yes, they did, were they also false prophets? no they were not. did Charles Russell ever claim that he was infallible? no? well then why are you portraying him as if he did? did he preach what he thought was true at the time? yes? one of the distinguishing features of Russell as well as his predecessors is tha ...[text shortened]... mblems of a hollow faith and wave like a huge banner above every sort of hypocrisy imaginable.
    http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/jehovahs-witnesses-and-their-many-false-prophecies

    Remember Deut. 18:22, "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." If someone makes a false prophecy, and they have claimed to be a prophet of God, then they are false prophets and are not to be listened to. Do the Witnesses claim to be the prophet of God? Yes, they do.

    In 1972 the Jehovah's Witness Watchtower claimed to be the prophet of God.

    IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET" -- "So does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?...This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses...Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197). (See Deut. 18:21.)

    1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874," (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).
    1899 "...the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).
    1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873," (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).
    1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection," (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).
    1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914," (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).
    1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).
    1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year," (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).
    1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work," (Watchtower, Sept., 1925, p. 262).
    1926 "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything," (Watchtower, p. 232).
    1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates," (Vindication, p. 338).
    1941 "Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon," (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).
    1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them," (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).
    1968 "Why are you looking forward to 1975?" (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 494).
    A JW might say that the organization is still learning. If that is so, then how can they trust what they are taught now by the Watchtower? Will what they are being taught now change also?
    A true prophet of God won't err in prophesying. Only a false prophet does. The Jehovah's Witness organization, that claims to be a prophet of God, is really a false prophet. Jesus warned us by saying, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect -- if that were possible" (Matt. 24:24).
  12. Standard memberRajk999
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    11 Jul '09 21:07
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    pile of rubbish, i don't think so, and you know it, i know it, the whole world knows it, you are a fake! a weed! a talker of the talk and not a walker of the walk! you cannot be a Christian for you do not follow the teachings nor the example of the Christ!

    Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of ...[text shortened]... d went off and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours - Matthew 25:24-25
    You have the amazing talent of telling me what I do, and what kind of life I live, 4000 miles away, over the internet !! Cool. You are really good. Did you get that gift from Charles Russell ?

    Tell me ... what am I going to have for dinner ? .. 😀
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    11 Jul '09 21:071 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    It is one thing, my dear robbie, to say that you have an interpretation of prophecy but another if you say that God has told you directly that this is the way things are to pan out. If you disagree, do you think scripture inspired by God has false prophecies in them? I would think that this would have to be your position. In additoin, howeever, he took pen m made the claim that Jesus was Michael the archeagnel!! It is inexplicable to say the least.
    no whodey, i do not think that you understand the position, interpretation is quite one thing! knowledge quite another, Paul states that at present we see by means of a hazy mirror, this coupled with the fact that we are imperfect, means that it is inevitable that mistakes will be made. even the disciples who were with the Christ his entire time, were still fighting among themselves, who was the greatest. Russell never claimed to be infallible, the watchtower publication does not claim to be inspired of God as the Bible clearly is, but is is not through interpretation that Christ said you will recognise 'those men', but through their works and the fruitage of their works. Now putting that in context, no one, and i mean no one has ever come to my home with the exception of Jehovahs witnesses, who clearly take the example and teaching of Christ seriously, serious enough to do something about it. why should that be the case if all these other groups are following the teachings and example of the Christ? i can answer that, because they are not Christians.
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    11 Jul '09 21:112 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    You have the amazing talent of telling me what I do, and what kind of life I live, 4000 miles away, over the internet !! Cool. You are really good. Did you get that gift from Charles Russell ?

    Tell me ... what am I going to have for dinner ? .. 😀
    its a simple matter of deduction, no member of Christendom has ever came to my home to preach about the Bible, no one, not once, not a single time ever, not even for thirty seconds. you are a member of Christendom, so why should you be any different from the zillions of others who simply go to church on a Sunday and think that this will save them while there are millions of people starving spiritually? are you prepared to deny that this is the case?

    if i did not like you so much i would go to town on you, but i am feeling guilty already, its not in my character to be so forth write, but galveston asked a serious question, he is an older man and deserves respect, not belittlement
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    11 Jul '09 21:22
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/jehovahs-witnesses-and-their-many-false-prophecies

    Remember Deut. 18:22, "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." If someone makes a false prop ...[text shortened]... ct -- if that were possible" (Matt. 24:24).
    yeah and you can bet your bottom dollar that not one of those persons who wrote that garbage have ever got off their fat butts and preached the Kingdom message!
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