Creation is a Scientific Fact

Originally posted by Suzianne
The kind that doesn't believe you have to choose which to believe. They are not mutually exclusive. But religionists and scientists both say they are just so that they have something to fight over. Ridiculous.

Can I ask you to distinguish between science and Scientism. Scientists as a group are unlikely to comment, at least beyond their personal beliefs and there are plenty of scientists who are practising Christians. Like you they do not regard there as being a contradiction. Scientismists (my word), who try to make what is almost a religion out of science are who you complaining about.

See the Wikipedia page to see what I mean by scientism.

Originally posted by DeepThought
Can I ask you to distinguish between science and Scientism. Scientists as a group are unlikely to comment, at least beyond their personal beliefs and there are plenty of scientists who are practising Christians. Like you they do not regard there as being a contradiction. Scientismists (my word), who try to make what is almost a religion out of science are who you complaining about.

See the Wikipedia page to see what I mean by scientism.

Perhaps this IS what I mean. I'm not totally sure, as I've not heard this before. But yes, I'm referring to those who claim that the only thing they believe is that which they have evidence for.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I'm willing to believe, however, that 'God's actual mechanics of action' probably involve the very same physics we learned in high school. To us, they seem to take a very long time to build anything. But what is time to God? I'm guessing that God's day is not the same as our day.

This gives everyone room to believe or to not believe. See how that works?

The days in Genesis chapter one are obviously the same as our 24 hour days because it was written for our understanding, not God's. The "evening and morning" and numbering of the days is specifically used for this purpose, so we know these are individual days and not long periods of time. God even sets aside a seventh day sabbath so that we will be reminded that He made the heavens and the earth and seas and everything in them in only 6 days and not over billions of years.

This was a reason for one of the ten commandments:

"For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

(Exodus 20:11)

Originally posted by RJHinds
The days in Genesis chapter one are obviously the same as our 24 hour days because it was written for our understanding, not God's. The "evening and morning" and numbering of the days is specifically used for this purpose, so we know these are individual days and not long periods of time. God even sets aside a seventh day sabbath so that we will be reminded ...[text shortened]... venth day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. [/quote]
(Exodus 20:11)

In light of scientific evidence, this is exactly why the bible is incredibly unlikely to be anything other than a collection of bronze age myths.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The days in Genesis chapter one are obviously the same as our 24 hour days

As you have demonstrated before you cannot even define
what a day is today let alone thousands of years ago.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The days in Genesis chapter one are obviously the same as our 24 hour days because it was written for our understanding, not God's. The "evening and morning" and numbering of the days is specifically used for this purpose, so we know these are individual days and not long periods of time. God even sets aside a seventh day sabbath so that we will be reminded ...[text shortened]... venth day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. [/quote]
(Exodus 20:11)

This is almost as stupid a thing as you've ever said.

What you should have said is that it was written for the understanding of men living 3500 years ago. These are the men who could not fathom a day as being millions of years. Or that the real reasons for dietary restrictions written into the Talmud were parasites within animals that would make man sick. Or that STDs are caused by microbes and could therefore be cured. What would these men think about walking on the moon?

THESE are the men the Bible was written for. Our knowledge today far surpasses this and yet you would have man stay shackled to ancient ideas like a 6000 year old Earth or a 24-hour Genesis day. God knew that one day our knowledge would grow to the point where we could understand that a Genesis 1 day must have been millions if not billions of years long and yet here you are still insisting that man is the same limited-knowledge man he was back then.

This is why I say your faith is limited. You insist that your God stay in the little box defined by your limited imagination. You say with your mouth that 'anything is possible with God', and yet you do not believe it. You limit God to his explanation to men with limited knowledge instead of using our current knowledge to more fully understand what God was doing. This is the mistake of the fundamentalist. God knew man would grow up and understand more of the universe, and yet you insist that God's explanation to the ancient, limited-knowledge man is all that He can do. Time is very important to man; man changes over time. But God is the same always. Obviously, then, what must change is our perception and understanding of God to fit our new knowledge. But you can't even do that because your faith is so limited.

Originally posted by Suzianne
This is almost as stupid a thing as you've ever said.

What you should have said is that it was written for the understanding of men living 3500 years ago. These are the men who could not fathom a day as being millions of years. Or that the real reasons for dietary restrictions written into the Talmud were parasites within animals that would make man si ...[text shortened]... g of God to fit our new knowledge. But you can't even do that because your faith is so limited.

I agree with almost everything you say with one exception: You say god stays the same always. In order to have thoughts or speech, you have to have a time the though begins and the time the though ends so there is a set duration of such things. Suppose this god has zero time and the beginning of the universe and the end are all one to this god.

It would not be able to have thoughts because there would be no place in that whole time frame where one thought could be completed.

Therefore, a deity such as this could have its own time frame, where one of its days is equal to 1 billion of our years. That means therefore that it exists in a time frame 1 billion times slower than ours.

So supposing a human thought takes 2 seconds to complete (just picking a number out of thin air), that time frame would be 2 nanoseconds to the god so the same thought by this god would take 2 billion seconds to complete which is about 60 years of our time to think that same thought.

This is my own analysis of the situation so don't know if that represents actuality but that is my take on it. So 6000 years of YEC time would be the same as us thinking a sequence of about 100 thoughts, which might be the the equivalent of us writing a letter home to mom.

So this god would be a SLOW god🙂

Originally posted by sonhouse
I agree with almost everything you say with one exception: You say god stays the same always. In order to have thoughts or speech, you have to have a time the though begins and the time the though ends so there is a set duration of such things. Suppose this god has zero time and the beginning of the universe and the end are all one to this god.

It would ...[text shortened]... t be the the equivalent of us writing a letter home to mom.

So this god would be a SLOW god🙂

LOL! Brilliant. Just brilliant.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

I imagine most others would say this is so because Buddhism is barely a religion. A religion of self, maybe.

What I am saying is something I hear so few people saying. That Christianity (and possibly all Abrahamic religions, I do not know enough about Islam to know for sure) and science are not so far apart as most adherents of either would have you believe. I have an adequate science background (typical undergraduate science background) and I find no glaring or blatant problems with seeing both science and Christianity as truth. Apparently, this professor does see some incompatibility between Abrahamic religions and science. Well, I don't.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I agree with almost everything you say with one exception: You say god stays the same always. In order to have thoughts or speech, you have to have a time the though begins and the time the though ends so there is a set duration of such things. Suppose this god has zero time and the beginning of the universe and the end are all one to this god.

It would ...[text shortened]... t be the the equivalent of us writing a letter home to mom.

So this god would be a SLOW god🙂

You assume many things, such as God's relationship to time stays constant. Such as, God has zero time. Such as, God is a slow god.

You're just mocking what I said. I said nothing like what you're saying here.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

Interesting comments at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_evolution

I have no dog in this hunt.

Originally posted by Suzianne
This is almost as stupid a thing as you've ever said.

What you should have said is that it was written for the understanding of men living 3500 years ago. These are the men who could not fathom a day as being millions of years. Or that the real reasons for dietary restrictions written into the Talmud were parasites within animals that would make man si ...[text shortened]... g of God to fit our new knowledge. But you can't even do that because your faith is so limited.

I believe you are the one speaking stupid things. God was not trying to deceive us, but telling us like it was. A day is not billions of years. That is stupid.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I agree with almost everything you say with one exception: You say god stays the same always. In order to have thoughts or speech, you have to have a time the though begins and the time the though ends so there is a set duration of such things. Suppose this god has zero time and the beginning of the universe and the end are all one to this god.

It would ...[text shortened]... t be the the equivalent of us writing a letter home to mom.

So this god would be a SLOW god🙂

I know that you believe stupid things too. 😏