Originally posted by genius [b]Originally posted by Maustrauser [b]You misunderstand 'survival of the fittest'. It simply means that the organism that best fits the ecological niche (eg cold place, or hot place, or windy place, or salty place etc) is more likel ...[text shortened]... t they just "die off" as they can't survive? why would God do that?
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Oh dear. I have some bad news for you. One day, you will just 'die off'. Organisms do this. They die. And it has nothing to do with god.
Thanks to the US and Australian reticence on the Kyoto agreement (and China and India too) the Snowy Mountains Pygmy Possum is going to die off, unless it can change its ecological niche from the highest Australian peaks where it snows, to somewhere where it doesn't snow. Given that it needs snow to breed, the little chappie will unfortunately soon be putting its toes up in the air - permanently.
Originally posted by bbarr Or if the Garden of Eden was located on a fluffy white cloud. Oh, sorry, I thought this was the part where we engage in ad hoc stipulation.
There is nothing ad hoc about the stipulation. If God created the universe, it stands to reason that God is not subject to the flow of time (which is a property of the physical universe). If God, as a spiritual being, has an existence outside time as we know it, it is reasonable to assume that other spiritual beings (such as humans) also have an aspect to their existence outside time.
Originally posted by lucifershammer There is nothing ad hoc about the stipulation. If God created the universe, it stands to reason that God is not subject to the flow of time (which is a property of the physical universe). If God, as a spiritual being, has an existenc ...[text shortened]... ch as humans) also have an aspect to their existence outside time.
The Genesis story recounts events that happen in a sequence, with some occuring prior to or later than others. This is just what it means to say that events occur in time, that they bear temporal relationships to one another. If the Garden existed outside of time, then no event in the Garden could bear any temporal relationship to any other event. But this entailment contradicts Genesis, hence your claim is not only ad hoc, but also inconsistent with your other beliefs. Recall that the Bible begins with the claim that "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth...", and that this manifestly occurs prior to the creation of Adam and Eve ('cause that was on a later day, not the first day). So time was already in effect before Adam and Eve were on the scene. Do you have some further ad hoc stipulation concerning the proper construal of terms like 'beginning' and 'first'?
Originally posted by bbarr The Genesis story recounts events that happen in a sequence, with some occuring prior to or later than others. This is just what it means to say that events occur in time, that they bear temporal relationships to one another. If the Garden existed outside of time, then no event in the Garden could bear any temporal relationship to any other event. But this ...[text shortened]... er ad hoc stipulation concerning the proper construal of terms like 'beginning' and 'first'?
In the begining god created the emptyness that holds him
Then god created time.
Some time later man created god.
Originally posted by frogstomp After reading exactly what the "original sin " was i.e. knowing good from evil , wouldn't a "good " god realize the neither Eve or Adam had commited any sin at all , for they had no clue to that anything could be right or wrong prior to the first bites.
So whose " sin" was it..the unaware creations or the creator that put evil into the world on that tree?
That's an interesting point.
Is "evil" the same as "sin"? What's the relationship between the two?
Originally posted by AThousandYoung What was Mackay's argument?
What is the definition of 'good'? Why isn't survival of the fittest good?
Mackay had lots of arguments, many of which i forget or didn't understand (like the reasons for dinosaur bones being buried under human ones, even though they could, feasibly, have been alive at the ...[text shortened]... t bascially it was that only God is good now. it is something without imprefection, i suppose...[/b]
I guess you brought up Mackay as an irrelevant example of why this topic came to mind for you?
You said
so, if God created the world to be "good", then there would be no survival of the fittest. survival of the fittest is not "good"! it's a very sick way of doing things - killing off the weak!
You state that survival of the fittest is not 'good'. I know what 'survival of the fittest' means. What I don't know is what 'good' means. Some define it by pain and pleasure. Some define it by God's intentions or orders. We need that definition before we can see whethe or not the two are compatible or not.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung How can God create time 'after' anything else? Don't 'before' and 'after' signify relationships on a time axis?
time is a simple concept, one thing follows another. it takes time. Now they are using Einstein's spacetime continuum, however that only applies to the physical universe ( matter in it ends the continuum). What their postulation of an interval between "Let " and "Light" would be is beyond reason if time didnt exist.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung How can God create time 'after' anything else? Don't 'before' and 'after' signify relationships on a time axis?
Could it be that GOD created Eternity before there was time. Remember GOD exsisted before HE created the heaven and the earth. Time did not start until GOD began created the heaven and the earth.
Originally posted by blindfaith101 Could it be that GOD created Eternity before there was time. Remember GOD exsisted before HE created the heaven and the earth. Time did not start until GOD began created the heaven and the earth.
Do you realize you are saying God created the the place he started in?
It's time you make clear which concept of time and space you are using. There are different ones.
22 Mar '05 11:481 edit
creationism Vs evolution
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