Originally posted by e4chris That is a good argument against creationism, but what about parents who will pay / move for theirs kids to go to a religious school? - Surely these schools must teach science to a decent standard to?
http://www.agiweb.org/gap/evolution/
Click on a state to look into the status of teaching evolution and creationism in that state. In most if not all states, the standards set by the legislature apply to all schools and home schooling as well.
Here is a fascinating finding in Washington state. (Emphasis added.)
"A paper published in the November issue of Bioscience suggests that teaching evolution and intelligent design in college-level biology classes may be effective in helping students differentiate science from non-science. In 2003, 103 freshman biology majors at Central Washington University were divided into four sections. Two sections were taught about the arguments for evolution and intelligent design (ID) while two other sections were only taught about the arguments for evolution. At the end of the semester, 66 students completed a questionnaire about their beliefs before and after the course. Six belief choices were given on the questionnaire, ranging from biblical literalism to atheistic evolutionism. The results indicated that 61% of students exposed to evolution and ID changed their beliefs compared to only 21% of students exposed only to evolution. The majority of the 61% shifted toward evolution and away from ID."
So teaching creationism is counterproductive to its fans.
Originally posted by JS357 "Evolutionism was a widely held 19th century belief that organisms are intrinsically bound to increase in complexity through evolution.[1][2] The belief was extended to include cultural evolution and social evolution.[3]
(wikipedia)
I for one don't subscribe to this outdated -ism. It is akin to Social Darwinism which is unscientific.
But your asking t ...[text shortened]... you are confusing the science of evolution with political movements that distort that science.
Maybe it would get more respect from us if it were called the science of variation in species.
Originally posted by Phranny Teaching creationism in our schools will lead to a dumbing down of our youth which will lead to our economic downfall. Education, not bombs, is the way to ensure sustained economic growth for any nation. I think those who believe in creationism are terribly misguided religious nuts. Most Christians, especially those with more than an eighth grade education, believe in evolution and science.
Just look at the posts by the delusionists and this dumbing down becomes obvious.
Originally posted by e4chris i get 2 thumbs down for that - I wonder in a world of googlefudge and free donuts if you folks forget World War 2 happened and was driven by Evil-lutionairy ideas on the Nazi side. There were people in my family with correspondence with Churchill, I wonder if you have any comprehension what the English did as revenge (I do!)
WWII was driven by jew-hating christian fundamentals
Originally posted by woodypusher Just look at the posts by the delusionists and this dumbing down becomes obvious.
It looks obvious to me that were it not for their arguments we could turn into a bunch of fascists;
Its odd but there have been fascist countries in the past that were good with liberal issues, but still turn very nasty -
I used to work for a multinational, thankfully one with good morals - it was seen as important, but I've also worked for wicked companies (incl a bankrupt pet insurance company, that was great) and I just contempt them.
The Church still provides food, housing, shelter in the UK in a big way- they deserve a say in education - raising little fascists to work in immoral companies doesn't sound good to me - And the ideas around evolution do pervade into academia making it unpleasantly elitist - have seen it.
Originally posted by e4chris It looks obvious to me that were it not for their arguments we could turn into a bunch of fascists;
Its odd but there have been fascist countries in the past that were good with liberal issues, but still turn very nasty -
I used to work for a multinational, thankfully one with good morals - it was seen as important, but I've also worked for wicked com ideas around evolution do pervade into academia making it unpleasantly elitist - have seen it.
What's the Church of England's position on evolution?
Church of England Declares Evolution, Faith Are Compatible
"The vote comes as more than 850 congregations throughout the globe are celebrating Evolution Weekend with the aim of demonstrating that evolution poses no problems for their faith."
Originally posted by JS357 What's the Church of England's position on evolution?
Church of England Declares Evolution, Faith Are Compatible
"The vote comes as more than 850 congregations throughout the globe are celebrating Evolution Weekend with the aim of demonstrating that evolution poses no problems for their faith."
There isn't such a creationist agenda in the UK I don't know of many churches campaigning for it - Seems more of a US thing. I'm taken by the level of nastiness towards anyone of that view (and find it typical of arrogant chess players, academics, corporate types - have seen that type of bitchyness before)
The UK has faith Schools - there are Muslim ones, Catholic ones that will certainly teach creationism - but the national curriculum I don't know . In my day it included religious education.
I'm not sure how it works in America with faith schools?
I only knew 1 English creationist who was a bit mad and wanted the whole of science re written - not the more rational don't teach human evolution idea rj has. I agree its bogus - if you do your home work you will struggle to find a decent advocate in the 100 years between Darwin and Dawkins.
Originally posted by e4chris so what great evolutionists do you admire?
What do you mean by 'evolutionist'? Someone who is a proponent of evolution like Darwin or Dawkins, or someone who simply accepts that it is valid science, like the Pope, and much of the rest of the world including Winston Churchill who by the way also supported Eugenics. And should I admire them for their views on evolution, or for what else they have done?
And why do you ask? Is it to try and make a point, or do you just not like admitting when you are wrong, so you try to change the subject?
Originally posted by RJHinds Maybe it would get more respect from us if it were called the science of variation in species.
The Instructor
Why? Why are you so terrified of the word evolution? I know you like to spell it differently, but what do you have against the word itself? Has someone told you the word is evil?
Originally posted by twhitehead What do you mean by 'evolutionist'? Someone who is a proponent of evolution like Darwin or Dawkins, or someone who simply accepts that it is valid science, like the Pope, and much of the rest of the world including Winston Churchill who by the way also supported Eugenics. And should I admire them for their views on evolution, or for what else they have do ...[text shortened]... point, or do you just not like admitting when you are wrong, so you try to change the subject?
it is true, there were English people who supported eugenics yes, and I think Churchill was interested most academics of the day were. but they were not very nice people and they failed somewhat.
I do take anti creationists to mean pro eugenics , maybe i'm wrong and that's to simple but I do.
But I also can't see why atheists even will do Christmas with bells and whistles but somehow the first chapter from the bible is offensive to teach. its not at all.
Originally posted by e4chris There isn't such a creationist agenda in the UK I don't know of many churches campaigning for it - Seems more of a US thing. I'm taken by the level of nastiness towards anyone of that view (and find it typical of arrogant chess players, academics, corporate types - have seen that type of bitchyness before)
The UK has faith Schools - there are Muslim ones, k you will struggle to find a decent advocate in the 100 years between Darwin and Dawkins.
"Catholic ones that will certainly teach creationism"
The Catholic Church accepts biological evolution, including that of humans, with the added belief that humans have a soul that is a special creation by God. They do not teach creationism as that term is known in the US.
Faith schools in the US (including home schooling) are supposed to meet state standards for curriculum and effectiveness; standards that vary by state. There is no prohibition that I know of on teaching intelligent design in private schools. The effectiveness of teaching also has an impact on getting into college.
I haven't seen a rational argument for excluding humans from theories of biological evolution. The exception stated by the Catholic Church WRT the soul is not claimed to be based on rational argument but is claimed to be in keeping with God's revelation. Reason and revelation are together the whole of our knowledge, accordingly, and they do not conflict, as they cover different things.
Originally posted by e4chris it is true to say there were English people who supported eugenics yes, and I think Churchill was interested most academics of the day were. but they were not very nice people and they failed somewhat.
I do take anti creationists to mean pro eugenics , maybe i'm wrong and that's to simple but I do.
But I also can't see why atheists even will do Chris ...[text shortened]... whistles but somehow the first chapter from the bible is offensive to teach. its not at all.
You seem to admit that you have a shallow understanding of what's going on in the US WRT evolution.
Creationisms Back Door?
14 Sep '13 23:321 edit
Back to Top