Cruel and unusual punishment

Eternal Hell sounds cruel and unusual to me. Just imagine having a prison system where you could not kill the prisiner but you could tortured him to the point of madness everyday. Of course that would not be tolerated for a second in a civilized world. Eternity with out end in some kind of a Hellish situation what ever that might be sounds evil, and non God like to me. No rational, level headed, sane God would set up such a nightmare, and call it justice. It's pure garbage and a totally primitive, and evil concept of God.

Originally posted by buckky
Eternal Hell sounds cruel and unusual to me. Just imagine having a prison system where you could not kill the prisiner but you could tortured him to the point of madness everyday. Of course that would not be tolerated for a second in a civilized world. Eternity with out end in some kind of a Hellish situation what ever that might be sounds evil, and non God l ...[text shortened]... tmare, and call it justice. It's pure garbage and a totally primitive, and evil concept of God.

It sounds like you are in hell as we speak. Hell to me is nothing but seperation from God and God is referred to the source of all love and life. Therefore, if we choose to remain seperated from him, what are we choosing?

Originally posted by buckky
Eternal Hell sounds cruel and unusual to me. Just imagine having a prison system where you could not kill the prisiner but you could tortured him to the point of madness everyday. Of course that would not be tolerated for a second in a civilized world. Eternity with out end in some kind of a Hellish situation what ever that might be sounds evil, and non God l ...[text shortened]... tmare, and call it justice. It's pure garbage and a totally primitive, and evil concept of God.

Of course that would not be tolerated for a second in a civilized world.

What are the measures you used to say that the civilized world?

Who put the measures of a civilized world?

What you see accepted from a civilized world others can see differently. It depends on how do you think , and how others think.

Given that what you are talking about has nothing to do with out dialy life and you can't compare it to anything we know, then you can't use your measures about civilized world to accept or reject it.

Also comparing rules created by man compared to the rules created by GOD doesn't make any sense.

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Another point, why do you only think about eternal hell,and ignore eternal heaven? Why you think you will be in Hell and don't like the punishment. Why don't think about the full part of the cup.

Originally posted by buckky
Eternal Hell sounds cruel and unusual to me. Just imagine having a prison system where you could not kill the prisiner but you could tortured him to the point of madness everyday. Of course that would not be tolerated for a second in a civilized world. Eternity with out end in some kind of a Hellish situation what ever that might be sounds evil, and non God l ...[text shortened]... tmare, and call it justice. It's pure garbage and a totally primitive, and evil concept of God.

In a civilized world people do cruel things to each other all the time
and many times with eternal consequence, not even knowing for sure
what the end result of the consequence is outside of death.
Kelly

Originally posted by buckky
Eternal Hell sounds cruel and unusual to me. Just imagine having a prison system where you could not kill the prisiner but you could tortured him to the point of madness everyday. Of course that would not be tolerated for a second in a civilized world. Eternity with out end in some kind of a Hellish situation what ever that might be sounds evil, and non God l ...[text shortened]... tmare, and call it justice. It's pure garbage and a totally primitive, and evil concept of God.

OK, now let us make you God if only but for a moment. If there be a devil, what should be done with him? I mean, he has chosen eternal seperation from God and, therefore, has chosen that which is opposite of what God stands for. So what should be done with a hateful, spiteful, murderous being and what should be done with his followers?

Originally posted by buckky
Of course that [torture] would not be tolerated for a second in a civilized world.

President Bush would disagree with you here. 😉

Originally posted by whodey
It sounds like you are in hell as we speak. Hell to me is nothing but seperation from God and God is referred to the source of all love and life. Therefore, if we choose to remain seperated from him, what are we choosing?

Why does it sound like he is in hell? Because he is critical of a traditional literal idea of hell?

Explain the reasons for your assertion.

Originally posted by whodey
OK, now let us make you God if only but for a moment. If there be a devil, what should be done with him? I mean, he has chosen eternal seperation from God and, therefore, has chosen that which is opposite of what God stands for. So what should be done with a hateful, spiteful, murderous being and what should be done with his followers?

What about understanding and forgiving the devil? Should be second nature for an omniscient and omnibenevolent being,

Or is your moral vision so pathetically limited that there is only room for hate and vengence in it?

Originally posted by buckky
Eternal Hell sounds cruel and unusual to me. Just imagine having a prison system where you could not kill the prisiner but you could tortured him to the point of madness everyday. Of course that would not be tolerated for a second in a civilized world. Eternity with out end in some kind of a Hellish situation what ever that might be sounds evil, and non God l ...[text shortened]... tmare, and call it justice. It's pure garbage and a totally primitive, and evil concept of God.

This can ultimately be answered with one simple concept, so Ill write slowly for your sake 😉 . Responsibilty. How can someone be just if they won't allow a being to live up to the consequences. This whole thread in which you strongly protest hell is nothing more than a complain against being responsble for your own choices. This problem of wanting to be "unresponsible" which is perhaps the greatest problem our societies (US, Europe etc) have: we want to run from responsiblites. One of the must simple examples is abortion: they simply don't want to be responsible for the decision they made so they clear away the consequences by murdering innocent.

But that's a rant/thread for another time, so Ill get back to the question at hand.

So, being responsible for your own actions, there are only two alternatives: God or not. Some people argue that this is unloving and unjust. But God is just: he gave us a free choice and now he is mearly making you live up to it. To put it practically, its the same as complaining that you got marked off on a test at school for answering a question on a test incorrectly. An answer that was bombardad at you from both the teacher and your fellow students (who didn't want you to fail), furthermore on a test you were warned about but chose to ignore. And now that you got the question wrong, you have to live with the consequences.
Some say that eterinity is too harsh, that this is unloving, after all, how is eternal suffering fair? But furthermore, God proves that he is all loving: He chose to give you mercy, to give you a way out. So that now we have an alternative choice: we can choose to spend eternity with him, away from this torture that you so strongly protest, or to openly and intentionally fail this simple, easy test that he has put before us. So in a reality (as the brimstone preachers somewhat accuratly put it) we are held over hell, and the only thing that can keep us out is God's grace and love. All we have to do is accept it. So how can God be evil for allowing you to make a choice (for if he didn't give you free will then how could he possibly love you?) and allowing you to live with it? It's not evil, its just. So step up, take your resonsiblity like a man.

endgamer

Originally posted by endgamer
complain against being responsble for your own choices. This problem of wanting to be "unresponsible" which is perhaps the greatest problem our societies (US, Europe etc) have: we want to run from responsiblites. One of the must simple examples is abortion: they simply don't want to be responsible for the decision they made so they clear away the consequences by murdering innocent.

So a woman, raped, no choice made must now care for and nurture the sin of another? No matter what kind of effect this may have on the rest of her life?
As for the rest of the post, do you not at least see that the literal translation of hell may be just a tad over the top? If I were to live a slovenly life, not care for others directly (but never actually harm others either) I end up burnign for eternity? That's just a little extreme no?
Just uttering the simple words "I denounce the Holy Spirit", 5 words, even if uttered alone get you burnt in hell forever without hope of forgiveness if we're to read the bible literally. I mean, that is a little heavy handed to say the least.

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
Why does it sound like he is in hell? Because he is critical of a traditional literal idea of hell?

Explain the reasons for your assertion.

I said this because he seems tormented by the idea and hell is a state of torment.

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
What about understanding and forgiving the devil? Should be second nature for an omniscient and omnibenevolent being,

Or is your moral vision so pathetically limited that there is only room for hate and vengence in it?

Of coarse I have wondered the same thing as to why there is no turning back for Lucifer. However, it does not appear to be possible. As to why this might be so is speculative, however, I have my ideas on the matter.

As for my own pathetically limited vision as you put it, all I will say is that it is not up to me. Vengence is the Lords, not mine. Therefore, if you have issues, take it up with the Big Guy. 😉

Originally posted by wittywonka
President Bush would disagree with you here. 😉

Do you have a little brother or sister? Imagine if someone kidnapped them and you had that person in your jail. What wouldn't you do to get the information from him to get your loved ones back?

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
What about understanding and forgiving the devil? Should be second nature for an omniscient and omnibenevolent being,

Or is your moral vision so pathetically limited that there is only room for hate and vengence in it?

Or is your moral vision so pathetically limited that there is only room for hate and vengence in it?

This sounds like a good description of Satan.

Originally posted by josephw
Do you have a little brother or sister? Imagine if someone kidnapped them and you had that person in your jail. What wouldn't you do to get the information from him to get your loved ones back?

That doesn't sound particularly Christian of you.
Would Jesus resort to torture do you think?
Do you think he was referring to torture when he suggested we love our neighbours as ourselves? Or was he referring to just the good neighbours? You know, the ones who were nice ...