Originally posted by amannion That doesn't sound particularly Christian of you.
Would Jesus resort to torture do you think?
Do you think he was referring to torture when he suggested we love our neighbours as ourselves? Or was he referring to just the good neighbours? You know, the ones who were nice ...
One can't compare man with God. God is just, man is unjust. We simply cannot allow men to get away with evil. But we do.
I am not a pacifist. If a man insults my wife, he won't do it a second time. If a man harms one of my children, it would be better if a millstone were tied around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.
Maybe that doesn't sound "christian" to you, but let's face reality. We must defend the innocent from evil men. Or we are no better then them.
Originally posted by buckky Eternal Hell sounds cruel and unusual to me. Just imagine having a prison system where you could not kill the prisiner but you could tortured him to the point of madness everyday. Of course that would not be tolerated for a second in a civilized world. Eternity with out end in some kind of a Hellish situation what ever that might be sounds evil, and non God l ...[text shortened]... tmare, and call it justice. It's pure garbage and a totally primitive, and evil concept of God.
Originally posted by josephw One can't compare man with God. God is just, man is unjust. We simply cannot allow men to get away with evil. But we do.
I am not a pacifist. If a man insults my wife, he won't do it a second time. If a man harms one of my children, it would be better if a millstone were tied around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.
Maybe that doesn't sound "christ 's face reality. We must defend the innocent from evil men. Or we are no better then them.
Does your 'belief' in Jesus only go so far as to proclaim his name?
Any thoughts on what Jesus meant by the following?
Luke 6:27-29
27 But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either.
Originally posted by EcstremeVenom i dont understand why if you choose to not be with god that somehow you are choosing against him; why cant you be nuetral?
Because, as a local golden calf recently put it...
"You're either with us or against us"
Originally posted by EcstremeVenom i dont understand why if you choose to not be with god that somehow you are choosing against him; why cant you be nuetral?
Originally posted by josephw One can't compare man with God. God is just, man is unjust. We simply cannot allow men to get away with evil. But we do.
I am not a pacifist. If a man insults my wife, he won't do it a second time. If a man harms one of my children, it would be better if a millstone were tied around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.
Maybe that doesn't sound "christ ...[text shortened]... 's face reality. We must defend the innocent from evil men. Or we are no better then them.
But didn't Jesus say if a man slaps your right cheek then offer him your left cheek...or words to that effect!!!!!????
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne Does your 'belief' in Jesus only go so far as to proclaim his name?
Any thoughts on what Jesus meant by the following?
Luke 6:27-29
27 But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either.
Well, if that's what you think Jesus is talking about, then by all means just stand there and let someone rape and murder your wife.
You quote a passage, and infer that Jesus is calling everyone to be a pacifist. This passage is a call to a spiritual attitude, and is not intended to be applied to a situation that requires a man to act like a man when a murderer threatens his life.
Originally posted by josephw One can't compare man with God. God is just, man is unjust. We simply cannot allow men to get away with evil. But we do.
I am not a pacifist. If a man insults my wife, he won't do it a second time. If a man harms one of my children, it would be better if a millstone were tied around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.
Maybe that doesn't sound "christ ...[text shortened]... 's face reality. We must defend the innocent from evil men. Or we are no better then them.
I agree completely and would do everything in my power to protect my family.
But Jesus wasn't talking about God should do, he was talking about what you Christians - his followers - should do. So, I still wonder how you reconcile your emotional response to violence and terror (the kill them all response) with your Christian response (the love them all response)?
Originally posted by josephw Well, if that's what you think Jesus is talking about, then by all means just stand there and let someone rape and murder your wife.
You quote a passage, and infer that Jesus is calling everyone to be a pacifist. This passage is a call to a spiritual attitude, and is not intended to be applied to a situation that requires a man to act like a man when a murderer threatens his life.
Try applying a little common sense.
Hang on, did you just say that a biblical passage is NOT intended to be taken literally?
How do you decide when one is or isn't?
Isn't it God's decision to make and not yours?
Originally posted by josephw Well, if that's what you think Jesus is talking about, then by all means just stand there and let someone rape and murder your wife.
You quote a passage, and infer that Jesus is calling everyone to be a pacifist. This passage is a call to a spiritual attitude, and is not intended to be applied to a situation that requires a man to act like a man when a murderer threatens his life.
Try applying a little common sense.
This is from the post that I replied to:
If a man insults my wife, he won't do it a second time. If a man harms one of my children, it would be better if a millstone were tied around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.
Rape? Murder? Murderer threatens his life?
You weren't speaking of trying to protect. You were speaking of vengeance.
What do you think Jesus is calling everyone to be?
Originally posted by josephw Well, if that's what you think Jesus is talking about, then by all means just stand there and let someone rape and murder your wife.
You quote a passage, and infer that Jesus is calling everyone to be a pacifist. This passage is a call to a spiritual attitude, and is not intended to be applied to a situation that requires a man to act like a man when a murderer threatens his life.
Try applying a little common sense.
You quote a passage, and infer that Jesus is calling everyone to be a pacifist. This passage is a call to a spiritual attitude, and is not intended to be applied to a situation that requires a man to act like a man when a murderer threatens his life.
My qualifications in bible interpretation are rather limited, but it sounds like like what Jesus is saying here is that you should not seek vengeance for wrongs against you. Self-defence is OK, but not seeking revenge.
Whereas you seem to be all for revenge, e.g.:
If a man insults my wife, he won't do it a second time
--
If someone "hits you on the cheek" will you not "offer him the other one also?"
Originally posted by EcstremeVenom i dont understand why if you choose to not be with god that somehow you are choosing against him; why cant you be nuetral?
So what happens when you become neutral in a war? Just look at WW2. What happened to Belgium? What happened to Switzerland? I think you will find that you either choose a side or get used or run over by one of the two opposing sides.
Originally posted by amannion I agree completely and would do everything in my power to protect my family.
But Jesus wasn't talking about God should do, he was talking about what you Christians - his followers - should do. So, I still wonder how you reconcile your emotional response to violence and terror (the kill them all response) with your Christian response (the love them all response)?
My response is not from my emotions. It is only common sense that the guilty be punished. It's the civilized thing to do.
We love our enemies, if when they are thirsty we give them drink. Etc.
But to lie down and do nothing when our enemy attacks us is cowardly and foolish.
We are civilized when we uphold the rule of law. But if we allow the guilty to go unpunished we reap the eventual demise of our culture. The evidence is before our eyes.
Originally posted by josephw My response is not from my emotions. It is only common sense that the guilty be punished. It's the civilized thing to do.
We love our enemies, if when they are thirsty we give them drink. Etc.
But to lie down and do nothing when our enemy attacks us is cowardly and foolish.
We are civilized when we uphold the rule of law. But if we allow the guilty to go unpunished we reap the eventual demise of our culture. The evidence is before our eyes.
You're mixing punishment with vengeance.
And you're also mixing up the notion of an enemy with that of a criminal - two very different states.
I'm not saying we shouldn't defend ourselves, but I'm still interested in how you reconcile your position of vengeance with that of Jesus's?
Cruel and unusual punishment
04 Jul '07 13:14
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