1. Joined
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    02 Nov '06 09:53
    Would the believers amonst you (of whatever flavour) consider what would have happened had they been born and raised in a different culture/faith?

    If you are prone to being a believer, would you not be a believer in the other faith?

    So if you are an ardent catholic, you could have been a muslin cheerleader, except for an accident of birth.

    How can any of you assert that your faith is the true one?
  2. Cape Town
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    02 Nov '06 09:58
    Originally posted by sugiezd
    How can any of you assert that your faith is the true one?
    Because that is what faith is: an assertion that something is true without logical backing. The only difficulty is persuading someone else that it is true.
  3. London
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    02 Nov '06 15:47
    Originally posted by sugiezd
    Would the believers amonst you (of whatever flavour) consider what would have happened had they been born and raised in a different culture/faith?

    If you are prone to being a believer, would you not be a believer in the other faith?

    So if you are an ardent catholic, you could have been a muslin cheerleader, except for an accident of birth.

    How can any of you assert that your faith is the true one?
    The culture I was raised in gave me the opportunity to see most world religions (and atheism) at very close quarters. So it's not as though I didn't know about the alternatives.

    If I'd been raised in another faith, I'd probably be non-religious at this stage in my life. Eventually, however, I think I'd end up right where I am.
  4. Joined
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    02 Nov '06 16:02
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    The culture I was raised in gave me the opportunity to see most world religions (and atheism) at very close quarters. So it's not as though I didn't know about the alternatives.

    If I'd been raised in another faith, I'd probably be non-religious at this stage in my life. Eventually, however, I think I'd end up right where I am.
    Which is where?

    (Serious question)
  5. London
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    02 Nov '06 16:07
    Originally posted by sugiezd
    Which is where?

    (Serious question)
    Stick around this forum for a few hours and you'll find out. 😉
  6. Standard memberWulebgr
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    03 Nov '06 02:16
    Originally posted by sugiezd
    Would the believers amonst you (of whatever flavour) consider what would have happened had they been born and raised in a different culture/faith?

    If you are prone to being a believer, would you not be a believer in the other faith?

    So if you are an ardent catholic, you could have been a muslin cheerleader, except for an accident of birth.

    How can any of you assert that your faith is the true one?
    Nearly all American and European Christians would be Buddhists in parts of the East, Hindus in India, and Muslims in North Africa and most of the Middle East. They are followers of the belief system integral to their culture.
  7. Joined
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    03 Nov '06 08:22
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    Nearly all American and European Christians would be Buddhists in parts of the East, Hindus in India, and Muslims in North Africa and most of the Middle East. They are followers of the belief system integral to their culture.
    Thank you - exactly the point that I am trying to make.

    Now, given that several of these religions are at odds with each other (and within themselves) doesn't that make regigion ridiculous?
  8. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    03 Nov '06 08:241 edit
    Originally posted by sugiezd
    Thank you - exactly the point that I am trying to make.

    Now, given that several of these religions are at odds with each other (and within themselves) doesn't that make regigion ridiculous?
    What aspect of human nature isn't ridiculous?

    Some Native American tribes, which exactly I forget, had some ceremonies in which their own beliefs were ridiculed, just to put things in perspective. Something akin to Saturnalia, the spirit of carnival, I expect.

    Sadly, Western rationalists often have a monotheistic hangover, even when they think they're atheists. (Isn't it ridiculous to call yourself an atheist?)

    At the same time, some religious practitioners find common ground with other religions--there's not much to choose between Sufis and Christian mystics, for instance.

    You can choose to emphasise differences or similarities. Different religions are expressions of different cultural responses to the terrors of inhabiting a space-time continuum. Could you have done better had you lived 1000, 10000, 100 000 years ago? Sneering at religion is a rather Johnny-come-lately activity, in my opinion.

    That doesn't mean you can't mock religious people. (Loop back to top of post).
  9. Joined
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    03 Nov '06 09:32
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    What aspect of human nature isn't ridiculous?

    Some Native American tribes, which exactly I forget, had some ceremonies in which their own beliefs were ridiculed, just to put things in perspective. Something akin to Saturnalia, the spirit of carnival, I expect.

    Sadly, Western rationalists often have a monotheistic hangover, even when they think t ...[text shortened]... opinion.

    That doesn't mean you can't mock religious people. (Loop back to top of post).
    Nice post.

    I particularly like the bit about calling yourself an aethist being ridiculous.

    After all, it's just the ground state.

    I think that the place of religion in society is diminishing, possibly in reverse proportion to education.
  10. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    03 Nov '06 09:37
    Originally posted by sugiezd
    I think that the place of religion in society is diminishing, possibly in reverse proportion to education.
    I think so too, although I would like to see more ethics taught at school. An integrated ethical holistic secular approach would win my approval.
  11. London
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    03 Nov '06 09:39
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    Sneering at religion is a rather Johnny-come-lately activity, in my opinion.

    That doesn't mean you can't mock religious people. (Loop back to top of post).
    I don't see the point of not mocking religion if you can go on to mock religious people.
  12. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    03 Nov '06 09:40
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    I don't see the point of not mocking religion if you can go on to mock religious people.
    OK, mock them all.

    A balanced religion mocks itself.
  13. London
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    03 Nov '06 09:41
    Originally posted by sugiezd
    I think that the place of religion in society is diminishing, possibly in reverse proportion to education.
    Possibly because many educational faculties have been taken over by a certain anti-religious ideology?

    Quick question: When you were in school, were you ever taught about Christopher Columbus? Do you remember what the reason was for the opposition he faced?
  14. London
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    03 Nov '06 09:43
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    OK, mock them all.

    A balanced religion mocks itself.
    That's a strange idea of balance.

    A religion that mocks itself helps nobody. Perhaps you meant something like 'self-examination' or 'self-critique'.
  15. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    03 Nov '06 09:45
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    That's a strange idea of balance.

    A religion that mocks itself helps nobody. Perhaps you meant something like 'self-examination' or 'self-critique'.
    Perhaps I meant just what I said.

    I'm off, talk to sugiezd.
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