1. SubscriberFMF
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    15 Nov '18 03:281 edit
    KellyJay seems to believe that his religious beliefs make me "dance" around the "truth".

    sonship has often spoken the same way.

    josephw did too. SecondSon and lemon lime have spoken in similar terms. RJHinds did as well.

    How many years do Christian theists here have to be engaging with atheists before they realize that such assertions are an utterly futile kind of rhetoric when discussing things with people who are non-believers?

    You can't really think you are causing anyone to "dance" because of how compelling and gotcha you think the claims and "arguments" in support your beliefs are, can you?

    Surely not, right?

    So what's with the sing-to-the-choir posture and gimmicks?

    Why do so many Christians here talk to atheists as if today is the first time they have ever spoken to one?
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    15 Nov '18 03:40
    Calling all theists.

    Does strong faith rob you - intellectually and interpersonally speaking - of the ability to actually understand what it is like not to have the same faith as you do?

    Does strong faith actually make you think that you can create a "reality" in someone else's mind and that this is acheived by making assertions about your own faith and beliefs ~ and labelling them "the truth" ~ over and over and over again?

    Is there really little or nothing else for you to bring to the discourse as a result of the effects that strong faith apparently have on you?
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    15 Nov '18 03:42
    This thread is intended for discussion about the nature of theist-atheist discourse, if anyone is interested, and is not intended for theists to continue to claim that they are making atheists "dance" with the recitation their religious doctrines.
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    15 Nov '18 04:201 edit
    Gospel of Faith Alone

    For "salvation". For "eternal life".

    Have faith they must. Have faith they do.

    Be it nonsensical. Be it absurd.

    Have faith they must. Have faith they do.

    Truth be what they must.
  5. Devonshire
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    15 Nov '18 06:471 edit
    @fmf said
    Does strong faith rob you - intellectually and interpersonally speaking - of the ability to actually understand what it is like not to have the same faith as you do?

    Does strong faith actually make you think that you can create a "reality" in someone else's mind and that this is acheived by making assertions about your own faith and beliefs ~ and labelling them "the truth" ~ ...[text shortened]... r you to bring to the discourse as a result of the effects that strong faith apparently have on you?
    I’ve responded to the irritating “dance” comment by KellyJay in the “The Moral Argument for God's Existence” thread.

    But to your point here; there does seem to be (and especially recently) a downshift into a sort of “talk-to-the-hand” kind of repeated regurgitation of favoured religious duck-speak. It reminds me of politicians who when asked the same question several times, prefer to respond with a subtext of prepared waffle rather than address the question.
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    15 Nov '18 07:114 edits
    @fmf said
    KellyJay seems to believe that his religious beliefs make me "dance" around the "truth".

    sonship has often spoken the same way.

    josephw did too. SecondSon and lemon lime have spoken in similar terms. RJHinds did as well.

    How many years do Christian theists here have to be engaging with atheists before they realize that such assertions are an utterly futile kind of rhet ...[text shortened]... so many Christians here talk to atheists as if today is the first time they have ever spoken to one?
    FMF seems to believe that our religious beliefs simply consist of 'superstitious convoluted Hebrew mythology'.

    How many years do atheists here have to be engaging with theists before they realize that such assertions are an utterly futile kind of rhetoric when discussing things with people who are believers?

    So what's with the sing-to-the-atheist-choir posture and gimmicks?

    Why do so many atheists here talk to Christians as if today is the first time they have ever spoken to one?
  7. Standard membersonship
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    15 Nov '18 09:214 edits
    @dj2becker
    So what's with the sing-to-the-atheist-choir posture and gimmicks?

    Why do so many atheists here talk to Christians as if today is the first time they have ever spoken to one?


    What I notice is that a person comes claiming to be a Christian. Yet seems more in brotherhood with an atheist in so many areas.
    He says he has Jesus but relishes more kinship with avowed atheist then with his supposedly brothers in Christ.

    I sometimes wonder " With whom are you more in fellowship WITH, other believers in Christ or atheists? With whom are you attuned with more of a harmonious mind, your supposed brothers in Christ or the atheists?"

    It becomes a strange thing to see a supposed Christian so often unequally yoked in attitude with an unbeliever.

    We Christians are surely to be lovers of mankind. And we should respect fellow human beings all. But the NT says we are called out and cannot be in some kind of partnership with those denying God and Christ.

    " Do not be dissimalarly yoked with unbelievers, For what partnership do righteousnesss and lawlessness have? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness?

    ... Or what part does a believer have with an unbeliever?"
    (2 Cor. 6:14,15b)


    Have you noticed how here a believer might display more "one accord" and same opinion with an unbeliever? They practically form a team of mutual agreement at every turn.

    It reminds me of one embittered backslidden believer who retorted to me "I don't fellowship with Christians !"

    Proud of it too, he was. Fortunately, he eventually got recovered from that sour attitude.
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    15 Nov '18 10:29
    @sonship said
    @dj2becker
    So what's with the sing-to-the-atheist-choir posture and gimmicks?

    Why do so many atheists here talk to Christians as if today is the first time they have ever spoken to one?


    What I notice is that a person comes claiming to be a Christian. Yet seems more in brotherhood with an atheist in so many areas.
    He says he has Jesus but relishes m ...[text shortened]... !"

    Proud of it too, he was. Fortunately, he eventually got recovered from that sour attitude.
    Do you think if Jesus were among us here he would find you to be a nicer, friendlier, more dynamic and a better person and community member than divegeester?
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    15 Nov '18 10:34
    @sonship said
    @dj2becker
    So what's with the sing-to-the-atheist-choir posture and gimmicks?

    Why do so many atheists here talk to Christians as if today is the first time they have ever spoken to one?


    What I notice is that a person comes claiming to be a Christian. Yet seems more in brotherhood with an atheist in so many areas.
    He says he has Jesus but relishes m ...[text shortened]... !"

    Proud of it too, he was. Fortunately, he eventually got recovered from that sour attitude.
    We reveal what is in our hearts by things we say and do. When the judgment
    comes none of us will be with excuses that will hold water. Which is why what
    Jesus did is so important, not one of us is good enough on our own, yet many
    here do attempt to put how they see themselves, above others as if that actually
    meant something. It is a hard thing to find that space where we don't step in it as
    well, I cannot think of anyone who doesn't offend in some manner even with the
    best attentions.
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    15 Nov '18 10:491 edit
    @sonship said
    @dj2becker
    So what's with the sing-to-the-atheist-choir posture and gimmicks?

    Why do so many atheists here talk to Christians as if today is the first time they have ever spoken to one?


    What I notice is that a person comes claiming to be a Christian. Yet seems more in brotherhood with an atheist in so many areas.
    He says he has Jesus but relishes m ...[text shortened]... !"

    Proud of it too, he was. Fortunately, he eventually got recovered from that sour attitude.
    Do you think that the way divegeester is a more gregarious, humble, combative, humorous and unpretentious Christian than you are, do you think it threatens his chances of "salvation"?
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    15 Nov '18 10:51
    @sonship said
    What I notice is that a person comes claiming to be a Christian. Yet seems more in brotherhood with an atheist in so many areas.
    You "come here claiming to be a Christian" too. What evidence is there that it's true?
  12. Standard memberKellyJay
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    15 Nov '18 10:53
    @fmf said
    Do you think that the way divegeester is a more gregarious, humble, combative, humorous and unpretentious Christian than you are, do you think it threatens his chances of "salvation"?
    Salvation is always going to be what is going on between him and Jesus.
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    15 Nov '18 11:00
    @kellyjay said
    Salvation is always going to be what is going on between him and Jesus.
    So, if it's between Jesus and divegeester why is sonship being so sanctimonious about divegeester's personality and his relationships with people sonship doesn't approve of?
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    15 Nov '18 11:07
    @kellyjay said
    Salvation is always going to be what is going on between him and Jesus.
    sonship said "...the NT says we are called out and cannot be in some kind of partnership with those denying God and Christ." Is he making, to your way of thinking, a legitimate Christian on Christian charge against divegeester?
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    15 Nov '18 11:19
    @sonship said
    He says he has Jesus but relishes more kinship with avowed atheist then with his supposedly brothers in Christ.
    Should 'real Christians' "relish" your online persona?
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