Debate!!

After talking a bit to Robbie, I get the impression that some here may think that being "rich" is sinful and/or those that favor capitalism. Do you?

Of course, it may behoove us to define "rich".

Originally posted by whodey
After talking a bit to Robbie, I get the impression that some here may think that being "rich" is sinful and/or those that favor capitalism. Do you?

Of course, it may behoove us to define "rich".

What is there to discuss? Christ said the rich will have a hard time getting into the kingdom... as they will be engrossed with the material things of this world. Its not impossible but certainly not easy.

Also ... you for one belong to that group of Christians who dont believe that charity and good works are essential for salvation. So if you are a rich greedy Christian who does not give to the poor and do good works, much like in the story of the Rich man and Lazarus, then Yes, that kind of 'rich' is in fact sinful.

Originally posted by whodey
After talking a bit to Robbie, I get the impression that some here may think that being "rich" is sinful and/or those that favor capitalism. Do you?

Of course, it may behoove us to define "rich".

One of the riches states in the world, per capita, is the Vatican State.

If they sold all their gold and other stuff, they could do a lot of good in the poor world.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
One of the riches states in the world, per capita, is the Vatican State.

If they sold all their gold and other stuff, they could do a lot of good in the poor world.

Good point.

Originally posted by whodey
After talking a bit to Robbie, I get the impression that some here may think that being "rich" is sinful and/or those that favor capitalism. Do you?

Of course, it may behoove us to define "rich".

Jesus spends a large part of the bible condemning the rich and praising the poor. If the bible makes anything clear it is that being rich is sinful. I fail to see how any other conclusion could possibly be drawn.

Originally posted by rwingett
Jesus spends a large part of the bible condemning the rich and praising the poor. If the bible makes anything clear it is that being rich is sinful. I fail to see how any other conclusion could possibly be drawn.

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Jesus spends a large part of the bible condemning the rich and praising the poor. If the bible makes anything clear it is that being rich is sinful. I fail to see how any other conclusion could possibly be drawn.
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Being rich is sinful ???

Well I thought the Bible said that the LOVE of money was a root of all evil. Not the money but the LOVE of money.

Do you understand the difference between money and the love of money ?

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]===========================
Jesus spends a large part of the bible condemning the rich and praising the poor. If the bible makes anything clear it is that being rich is sinful. I fail to see how any other conclusion could possibly be drawn.
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Being rich is sinful ???

Well I thought the Bible sa ...[text shortened]... the LOVE of money.

Do you understand the difference between money and the love of money ?[/b]

It's kind of hard to be rich without having a love of money.

Originally posted by rwingett
It's kind of hard to be rich without having a love of money.

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It's kind of hard to be rich without having a love of money.
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There is no sinfulness related simply to being rich.

Greediness is another story.
Selfishness is another story.
Trusting in your riches rather than in God is another story.

I knew a Christian sister who had a considerable savings of money. The Lord had touched the hearts of many in the congregation that if they were in a position to do so, should give to a certain need in the ministry.'

She did not want to give of her savings. Do you know what happened? Well because this sister loved the Lord the gracious Lord taught her a good lesson.

One day she had to go to the hospital because of bleeding out of her nose. The doctors could not stop the bleeding out of her nose. The hospital could not figure out why she was bleeding out of the nose. And no treatment could stop the bleeding.

The Spirit of God impressed her heart "You see? You could have a gradual trickle away of your own blood and no one could help, let alone your money. Without the mercy of God your very life could just leak out with no one able to stop it. I could cause you to spend up all yoour money in medical treatment in a few short weeks. "

This is a paraphrase. This sister gave us this testimony. God showed her just how much her life is in His hands.

Now, compared to someone else I may seem rich. I don't think I'm rich. But to someone else I am rich. When pay day comes around my wife and I try to recognize that our trust HAS to be in God and not in our money. So we thank Him and try to be generous.

Without Him we could not work. Without Him we could not have the health to labor and make a living. It is good to humble yourself and realize your trust has to be in God and not in the uncertainty of riches.

It is not the money which is the sin. It is the love of it, the making of it an idol, and the trusting in it against trust in God, which can be the sinfulness.

What Americans fail to understand is that they have far more in common with the Romans of 2,000 years ago than they ever will with the people that Jesus ministered to. It is not a coincidence that Roman wealth fueled their military activities the same as American wealth does today. Culturally, Americans have far more in common with the Romans as well. The overwhelming majority of Christian Americans would not be Christians if they had to stick to the letter and the spirit of the teachings of Jesus.

Originally posted by jaywill
One day she had to go to the hospital because of bleeding out of her nose. The doctors could not stop the bleeding out of her nose. The hospital could not figure out why she was bleeding out of the nose. And no treatment could stop the bleeding.

The Spirit of God impressed her heart [b]"You see? You could have a gradual trickle away of your own blood and ...[text shortened]... I could cause you to spend up all yoour money in medical treatment in a few short weeks. "[/b]

Crude, but effective - God really showed her! Maybe next time she lies he can remove her liver to show his undying love.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]==========================
It's kind of hard to be rich without having a love of money.
==================================

There is no sinfulness related simply to being rich.

Greediness is another story.
Selfishness is another story.
Trusting in your riches rather than in God is another story.

I knew a Christ ...[text shortened]... g of it an idol, and the trusting in it against trust in God, which can be the sinfulness.[/b]

To be rich is to be greedy and selfish with a love of money. The quality of being rich is the physical manifestation of those sins. Whether being rich itself is a sin, or whether being rich is a sure indication of sin at work, seems to make little difference. The fact remains that all who are rich are sinful and they will not enter into the kingdom.

Originally posted by jaywill

There is no sinfulness related simply to being rich....

...

It is not the money which is the sin. It is the love of it, the making of it an idol, and the trusting in it against trust in God, which can be the sinfulness.

Jesus would disagree. Jesus was asked this question point blank and answered it point blank. Why you would disregard the word of Jesus is beyond me but not all that surprising.

Originally posted by rwingett
Jesus spends a large part of the bible condemning the rich and praising the poor. If the bible makes anything clear it is that being rich is sinful. I fail to see how any other conclusion could possibly be drawn.

Why not try reading portions of the Bible other than those that fit your constrained and temporal viewpoint? There is ample evidence throughout the Bible that God prospers his people, as well as those portions which teach that the love of riches is idolatry. In fact I would go so far as to say that God is the richest person in the Universe.

Originally posted by rwingett
To be rich is to be greedy and selfish with a love of money. The quality of being rich is the physical manifestation of those sins. Whether being rich itself is a sin, or whether being rich is a sure indication of sin at work, seems to make little difference. The fact remains that all who are rich are sinful and they will not enter into the kingdom.

Are you poor and holy my friend? Or just poor and doomed?

Originally posted by divegeester
Why not try reading portions of the Bible other than those that fit your constrained and temporal viewpoint? There is ample evidence throughout the Bible that God prospers his people, as well as those portions which teach that the love of riches is idolatry. In fact I would go so far as to say that God is the richest person in the Universe.

God "prospers" his people? What is that supposed to mean? Is that some variation of the "prosperity gospel" that has become popular with so many TV ministries?