1. Melbourne, Australia
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    10 Oct '10 22:59
    It strikes me that the people that argue vociferously against evolution strike many of the similar notes as the people who argue against human-induced climate change.

    I wonder what the perspective of religious people is on climate change?

    On evolution, I come back to a question I asked some years ago, which never seemed to be answered terribly well - what is the problem? Why does one scientific model seem to create such angst and anguish?
    And I might add, why do no others create the same angst?

    Contrary to some posters beliefs evolutionary biologists are not operating any differently to any other scientists. Yet some of you accept without question the models we construct that describe atoms or radiation or gravity or many others. What's the problem with this one other?
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    10 Oct '10 23:22
    Originally posted by amannion
    It strikes me that the people that argue vociferously against evolution strike many of the similar notes as the people who argue against human-induced climate change.

    I wonder what the perspective of religious people is on climate change?

    On evolution, I come back to a question I asked some years ago, which never seemed to be answered terribly well - ...[text shortened]... describe atoms or radiation or gravity or many others. What's the problem with this one other?
    well it appears to me that climate change is the consequence of economics, indeed as Tony Blair the ex British prime minister stated, 'which country is prepared to sacrifice its economy for the sake of the environment'. China, has sixteen out of twenty of the worlds most polluted cities, yet who thinks of that when they buy Chinese goods from the store? Science itself may be implicated, for was it not science which introduced CFCs, the result of which is a huge whole in the ozone. Was it not science and technology coupled with greedy exploitation, which has resulted in depletion of fish levels, which may never recover? Need one mention the rainforest exploitation, over use of nitrogen as fertiliser for greater crop yields and greater profits. Thus it seems to me, that economics and the abuse of science has led us to the brink of an environmental disaster, never the less, i have every hope that God shall not let the earths natural repletion process go one being abused, passed the point of no return.
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    11 Oct '10 00:00
    Originally posted by amannion
    It strikes me that the people that argue vociferously against evolution strike many of the similar notes as the people who argue against human-induced climate change.

    I wonder what the perspective of religious people is on climate change?

    On evolution, I come back to a question I asked some years ago, which never seemed to be answered terribly well - ...[text shortened]... describe atoms or radiation or gravity or many others. What's the problem with this one other?
    What climate change? Do you mean the four seasons? I like them.

    What is the problem? Sin is the problem. You see, when an idea like evolution, coupled with modern science, begins to contradict the clear teaching of God's word, then all hell is going to break loose.

    And the others? Well, what do they really know anyway? I mean, Einstein came up with a theory that he allegedly doubted later in life(don't quote me on this), so I'm told, what are we to believe? Science?

    The sum total of man's knowledge in comparison to all there is to know makes any theory he comes up with look very weak indeed. imo
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    11 Oct '10 00:091 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    What climate change? Do you mean the four seasons? I like them.

    What is the problem? Sin is the problem. You see, when an idea like evolution, coupled with modern science, begins to contradict the clear teaching of God's word, then all hell is going to break loose.

    And the others? Well, what do they really know anyway? I mean, Einstein came up with a t parison to all there is to know makes any theory he comes up with look very weak indeed. imo
    what climate change???? the hottest ocean temperatures on record, the greatest preponderance of hurricanes, unprecedented flooding, ice cap depletion, rain forest depletion, diminishing fish stocks, methane from farm animals, nitrogen from fertilisers, holes the size of a continent in the ozone, desertification, shall your house be under twenty feet of water and drifting out to the Atlantic/pacific/Mexican Gulf, whatever before you take note? I distance myself from the sceptics!
  5. Melbourne, Australia
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    11 Oct '10 00:16
    Originally posted by josephw
    What climate change? Do you mean the four seasons? I like them.

    What is the problem? Sin is the problem. You see, when an idea like evolution, coupled with modern science, begins to contradict the clear teaching of God's word, then all hell is going to break loose.

    And the others? Well, what do they really know anyway? I mean, Einstein came up with a t ...[text shortened]... parison to all there is to know makes any theory he comes up with look very weak indeed. imo
    I agree about our inadequacies.
    Okay, let me try a thought experiment on you.
    Let's assume that evolution is completely true. Don't worry, I know you don't believe it, but this is just a hypothetical.
    So, evolution is true, and all of the life on Earth, including the animal species (which includes us of course) alive today, evolved from earlier forms.

    How does this diminish or reduce your belief in a god? In fact, how does this affect your belief in a god at all?
  6. Standard memberKellyJay
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    11 Oct '10 04:15
    Originally posted by amannion
    I agree about our inadequacies.
    Okay, let me try a thought experiment on you.
    Let's assume that evolution is completely true. Don't worry, I know you don't believe it, but this is just a hypothetical.
    So, evolution is true, and all of the life on Earth, including the animal species (which includes us of course) alive today, evolved from earlier forms.
    ...[text shortened]... sh or reduce your belief in a god? In fact, how does this affect your belief in a god at all?
    Doesn't do anything for me, so let me ask you the same question if it is not true
    what does that do to you?
    Kelly
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    11 Oct '10 06:25
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    what climate change???? the hottest ocean temperatures on record, the greatest preponderance of hurricanes, unprecedented flooding, ice cap depletion, rain forest depletion, diminishing fish stocks, methane from farm animals, nitrogen from fertilisers, holes the size of a continent in the ozone, desertification, shall your house be under twenty feet ...[text shortened]... antic/pacific/Mexican Gulf, whatever before you take note? I distance myself from the sceptics!
    "The sky is falling, the sky is falling".
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    11 Oct '10 06:485 edits
    Originally posted by amannion
    I agree about our inadequacies.
    Okay, let me try a thought experiment on you.
    Let's assume that evolution is completely true. Don't worry, I know you don't believe it, but this is just a hypothetical.
    So, evolution is true, and all of the life on Earth, including the animal species (which includes us of course) alive today, evolved from earlier forms.
    ...[text shortened]... sh or reduce your belief in a god? In fact, how does this affect your belief in a god at all?
    Some believe evolution is true and that God created everything in existence. One might even say that it's possible that God made it this way, including evolution. I've considered it, but I reject the notion based on my perception of all available information.

    When we read in Genesis that "In the beginning..." I don't believe for a moment that it means there was no heaven and earth until just 6000 years ago. The "beginning" was most likely so long ago we can't imagine.

    But, the creation of man, according to the record, was quite recent.

    I have to run with that. In spite of the mountains and volumes of information about evolution, when in comparison to all there is to know coupled with, and in juxtaposition to what we do know, what I know, it(evolution), is spurious at best. imo
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    11 Oct '10 08:15
    Originally posted by josephw
    "The sky is falling, the sky is falling".
    i really only thought that Americans like this existed in popular cartoon sitcoms, but no, they are real! its not about you, its about your children!
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    11 Oct '10 09:07
    Originally posted by josephw
    What climate change? Do you mean the four seasons? I like them.

    What is the problem? Sin is the problem. You see, when an idea like evolution, coupled with modern science, begins to contradict the clear teaching of God's word, then all hell is going to break loose.

    And the others? Well, what do they really know anyway? I mean, Einstein came up with a t ...[text shortened]... parison to all there is to know makes any theory he comes up with look very weak indeed. imo
    the orthodox church and the catholic church all support evolution. but you know better, right?

    so if einstein would presumably doubt his theory (which he didn't) then we should all stop thinking because we might get something wrong? just because you can never achieve perfection means you shouldn't strive towards it?
  11. SubscriberProper Knob
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    11 Oct '10 09:25
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    i really only thought that Americans like this existed in popular cartoon sitcoms, but no, they are real! its not about you, its about your children!
    Unfortunately Rob, every right wing American Christian shares the same views.
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    11 Oct '10 09:333 edits
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    Unfortunately Rob, every right wing American Christian shares the same views.
    i dunno dear Noobster, its really really worrying, what have they been feeding their minds upon? I feel thoroughly depressed now! indeed i have an ash tree that i have been cultivating since he was little, from a mere twig, i plan to plant him some place so that he can grow tall and strong, he can suck in all the carbon he wants and be host to an entire community, but i need to take him some place he shall be safe!
  13. Melbourne, Australia
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    11 Oct '10 10:17
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Doesn't do anything for me, so let me ask you the same question if it is not true
    what does that do to you?
    Kelly
    Nothing at all. I'd just wait for the next scientific model to be developed. I'm not wedded to any one model or explanation - science is completely contingent. If it works, it's useful. If not, then move on to something else.
  14. Melbourne, Australia
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    11 Oct '10 10:19
    Originally posted by josephw
    Some believe evolution is true and that God created everything in existence. One might even say that it's possible that God made it this way, including evolution. I've considered it, but I reject the notion based on my perception of all available information.

    When we read in Genesis that "In the beginning..." I don't believe for a moment that it means th ...[text shortened]... n juxtaposition to what we do know, what I know, it(evolution), is spurious at best. imo
    So you accept that the universe might be a little older than 6000 years, but man must have been created. Isn't that a little selective of you - picking and choosing what fits what you want to believe?
  15. SubscriberProper Knob
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    11 Oct '10 10:20
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    i dunno dear Noobster, its really really worrying, what have they been feeding their minds upon? I feel thoroughly depressed now! indeed i have an ash tree that i have been cultivating since he was little, from a mere twig, i plan to plant him some place so that he can grow tall and strong, he can suck in all the carbon he wants and be host to an entire community, but i need to take him some place he shall be safe!
    And that's exactly how i feel about the anti-evolutionists (yourself included)!!!
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