1. Melbourne, Australia
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    13 Oct '10 05:13
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Al Gore, and quite a few people who are getting grants are making money.
    A lot of green companies are setup to make a lot of money too, with the help of
    governments who are setting them up, mainly because without the government's
    help no one would buy that stuff. The desire for electric cars that get 40 miles
    to a charge isn't really in high demand.
    Kelly
    Last I checked, Al Gore isn't a climate change scientist or researcher. Can you cite evidence of lots of researchers getting rich off these grants you mention?
    Green companies have been around for decades and aren't some new phenomenon that has arisen because of climate change, so we can ignore many of them. As for those who are new and are getting rich, I'd like to see some figures, but I can think of a dozen or more mining and fossil fuel giants off the top of my head ...
  2. Standard memberDasa
    Dasa
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    13 Oct '10 05:29
    Originally posted by amannion
    No, the theory is about speciation - that is, how do you get many different species from one. Darwin called his book 'On the origin of species' - the key being species and not life. It was not and is not a theory about the origins of life.
    So it doesn't start with a planet (the formation of which is a well understood theory and not magical at all), nor doe ...[text shortened]... otion of a supernatural creator lording it over the universe as absolutely repugnant.
    Richard Dawkins says the UNSEEN hand of natural selection, its a fantasy.

    You hate christianity because they say God will send you to the lake of fire (lord it over you), but Vedanta does not say this, so condemnation of Vedanta is unwarranted.

    If you weren,t envious of God you would explore Vedanta to the fullest, but you wont explore because you have your mind already made up. and thats not scientific to make your mind up without exploring everything.

    So your dishonesty is, that you have made up your mind and wont look at anything else, because your atheistic values support your nonsense life style.
  3. Account suspended
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    13 Oct '10 07:28
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Richard Dawkins says the UNSEEN hand of natural selection, its a fantasy.

    You hate christianity because they say God will send you to the lake of fire (lord it over you), but Vedanta does not say this, so condemnation of Vedanta is unwarranted.

    If you weren,t envious of God you would explore Vedanta to the fullest, but you wont explore because you h ...[text shortened]... and wont look at anything else, because your atheistic values support your nonsense life style.
    goodness me Vishy, you need to be kind to people, to reason with them, do you expect them to embrace your point of view by calling them liars?
  4. Melbourne, Australia
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    13 Oct '10 07:39
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Richard Dawkins says the UNSEEN hand of natural selection, its a fantasy.

    You hate christianity because they say God will send you to the lake of fire (lord it over you), but Vedanta does not say this, so condemnation of Vedanta is unwarranted.

    If you weren,t envious of God you would explore Vedanta to the fullest, but you wont explore because you h ...[text shortened]... and wont look at anything else, because your atheistic values support your nonsense life style.
    Richard Dawkins is a bit of a hack when it comes to popular writing.I certainly wouldn't use him as a shining example.
    I don't hate christianity or anything else. I hate the notion that any aspect of this world is governed by the supernatural - that would include your beloved Vedanta. And that is scientific, since science rejects the supernatural.
    I'm not sure how much more honest I can be about my perspective. And I'm not sure you know anything about my lifestyle so I'm a bit bemused by how you can presume to call it nonsense.
  5. Melbourne, Australia
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    13 Oct '10 08:01
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    what climate change???? the hottest ocean temperatures on record, the greatest preponderance of hurricanes, unprecedented flooding, ice cap depletion, rain forest depletion, diminishing fish stocks, methane from farm animals, nitrogen from fertilisers, holes the size of a continent in the ozone, desertification, shall your house be under twenty feet ...[text shortened]... antic/pacific/Mexican Gulf, whatever before you take note? I distance myself from the sceptics!
    Agree with all that, quite clear something "climactic" is bubbling up, and more exciting to follow! But read recently that the ozone hole appears to be now shrinking in response to restriction to CFCs the main culprit. A little good news is something.
  6. Cape Town
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    13 Oct '10 08:07
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Al Gore, and quite a few people who are getting grants are making money.
    A lot of green companies are setup to make a lot of money too, with the help of
    governments who are setting them up, mainly because without the government's
    help no one would buy that stuff. The desire for electric cars that get 40 miles
    to a charge isn't really in high demand.
    Kelly
    The electric car seems to be a rather odd example in this case.
    To my knowledge the government has not invested in electric car technology.
    US car companies did invest, then deliberately squashed the technology for a number of reasons. Nobody got rich off electric cars (not in the US anyway).
    Now China is making electric cars and I for one want one. Sadly I cant afford a new car of any type, so I have to wait for second hand ones to come around.
    My sister wants one too, and she is seriously considering importing one from China. The running cost in Zambia would be about 10% of a diesel engine.
  7. Account suspended
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    13 Oct '10 08:07
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Agree with all that, quite clear something "climactic" is bubbling up, and more exciting to follow! But read recently that the ozone hole appears to be now shrinking in response to restriction to CFCs the main culprit. A little good news is something.
    yes the earth's ability to replenish itself is truly wonderful. May favourite is the pollutants which remain in air borne suspension until they mix with salt from the ocean spray making them heavy enough to drop into the ocean where eventually they get vulcanised in huge ocean vents, a kind of massive ocean filtration system. Its utterly amazing!
  8. Standard memberDasa
    Dasa
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    13 Oct '10 08:39
    Originally posted by amannion
    Richard Dawkins is a bit of a hack when it comes to popular writing.I certainly wouldn't use him as a shining example.
    I don't hate christianity or anything else. I hate the notion that any aspect of this world is governed by the supernatural - that would include your beloved Vedanta. And that is scientific, since science rejects the supernatural.
    I'm not ...[text shortened]... nything about my lifestyle so I'm a bit bemused by how you can presume to call it nonsense.
    Let me explain something....the word nosense is a harmless word made up of NO and SENSE or no sense, so when i use it, it is not defamatory, but it means that what science puts forward makes no sense (certain departments of science) that is.

    So when I say the atheistic life style makes no sense, I mean it in a universal way, meaning that if life is about getting out of this cycle of birth and death, in this world of suffering, then the atheistic life style does nothing to accomplish that.

    To stop the cycle of birth and death, one must take to the spiritual life.
  9. Joined
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    13 Oct '10 15:491 edit
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Let me explain something....the word nosense is a harmless word made up of NO and SENSE or no sense, so when i use it, it is not defamatory, but it means that what science puts forward makes no sense (certain departments of science) that is.

    So when I say the atheistic life style makes no sense, I mean it in a universal way, meaning that if life is a ...[text shortened]... o accomplish that.

    To stop the cycle of birth and death, one must take to the spiritual life.
    “...So when I say the atheistic life style makes no sense, ...”

    And exactly what is this so-called “atheistic life style”?
    And what have atheists have in this so-called “atheistic life style” that theists do not have?

    Oh, hang on, I think you may have already partly answered this in your “The Doctrine of Atheism” thread but, if you look at my last post there, you will see that I have more-or-less debunked what you said there.

    And how would you know how all atheists live? I mean, can you tell us what, for example, I normally have for breakfast? (I presume this would be an “immoral atheistic breakfast” 😛 )

    “...meaning that IF life is about getting out of this cycle of birth and death, in this world of suffering, ...”

    Grant you that neither I nor most people are keen to die, but, and I hope you answer this using reason rather than quote scriptures, exactly what is you premise for believing that the purpose of our lives 'should' specifically be to get “out of this cycle of birth and death”? I mean, I can understand why you don't like the “death” part but the “birth” part as well? I mean, what is so offensive about birth?

    “...then the atheistic life style does nothing to accomplish that. ...”

    There isn't a formal “ atheistic life style” and, obviously, people certainly don't disbelieve that there is a god to get “out of this cycle of birth and death” but rather because of reason and the absence of evidence.
  10. Melbourne, Australia
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    13 Oct '10 21:28
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    Let me explain something....the word nosense is a harmless word made up of NO and SENSE or no sense, so when i use it, it is not defamatory, but it means that what science puts forward makes no sense (certain departments of science) that is.

    So when I say the atheistic life style makes no sense, I mean it in a universal way, meaning that if life is a ...[text shortened]... o accomplish that.

    To stop the cycle of birth and death, one must take to the spiritual life.
    But who says life is an endless cycle? You? Vendata?
    This is just a religious position which is not provable or defensible against either a rational perspective, or alternative religious perspectives.

    Science is science. You can't dismiss one area of science simply because you don't like it - that'd be like saying I don't believe in conservatives because I don't like what they say ...
  11. weedhopper
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    13 Oct '10 22:56
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    Unfortunately Rob, every right wing American Christian shares the same views.
    And some of us left wingers.😛
  12. Standard memberDasa
    Dasa
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    14 Oct '10 05:09
    This world is full of suffering, and then as well, you have disease, old age and death, so why would you not make any effort to change that.....if one doesnt take to the spiritual life, then they simply have to be born again and again, and do it all over, its not intelligent.

    And Islam, Christianity and Judaism, will not solve the problem either, because they do not know how to raise the consciousness of the person, to the transcendental platform, because they do not have the knowledge, but they have false beliefs.

    Atheistic life is a life that does nothing to understand, what you are, where you came from, and where you are going....its nonsense life.

    The atheists main focus is to make as much wealth as I can, have as much sex as I can, and make no enquiry into their spiritual welfare, and this is because their intelligence is defective and they dont even know, that they are eternal spiritual beings....they think that they are the body, made of pus, stool, urine, blood, mucus, bone, marrow and skin,.....this is a sighn of madness.

    And in this mad state, they declare that there is no God, and that their essence is only matter, with no desighn or cause or purpose or or anything.
  13. Joined
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    14 Oct '10 06:272 edits
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    This world is full of suffering, and then as well, you have disease, old age and death, so why would you not make any effort to change that.....if one doesnt take to the spiritual life, then they simply have to be born again and again, and do it all over, its not intelligent.

    And Islam, Christianity and Judaism, will not solve the problem either, becau ...[text shortened]... God, and that their essence is only matter, with no desighn or cause or purpose or or anything.
    "Atheistic life is ... nonsense life."
    "their intelligence is defective"

    Still insultive, eh? You find yourself superiour, eh? And think you can earn respect this way, eh?
    That shows us much about your social competence..
  14. Melbourne, Australia
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    14 Oct '10 06:42
    Originally posted by vishvahetu
    This world is full of suffering, and then as well, you have disease, old age and death, so why would you not make any effort to change that.....if one doesnt take to the spiritual life, then they simply have to be born again and again, and do it all over, its not intelligent.

    And Islam, Christianity and Judaism, will not solve the problem either, becau ...[text shortened]... God, and that their essence is only matter, with no desighn or cause or purpose or or anything.
    What the hell are you talking about?
    Atheist is not a synonym for hedonist or narcissist.
    You describe the cycle of birth and rebirth as if it were a given - it isn't. You may believe it, sure. But don't insult others who don't as being unintelligent.

    I'm keenly aware of the big questions of origin and purpose and direction - and I'm an atheist. I'm not interested in wealth, and to be honest, I'd rather be catching a nice wave on my surfboard than having sex (although I do like sex) - and I'm an atheist.
  15. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
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    14 Oct '10 06:52
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Don't know about billonaires, but money is being made...and the power grab
    is occuring left and right, it is all about control.
    Kelly
    Most of the power has been "grabbed" a long time ago. Whatever squabbles you see over power is just the tip of the tip of the iceberg.
    Actually I hear the church has been lording their power over people for a while...
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