@of-ants-and-imps said"The Father and Son".
He spoke knowledgeably of the relationship between the Father and Son, and pronounced the right to speak on authority of the Law.
He pronounced the right to speak on authority of the Law
"Of" or "on"?
Was he not a rabi?
Matthew 7:29
"...because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law."
Who was under this impression?
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@of-ants-and-imps saidMatthew 28:18-20
He claimed to have all power in heaven and in earth
Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority (all power of absolute rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
So, someone gave it to him? So this is NOT an example of him claiming to be God, then.
@fmf saidA judge speaks with the authority of the law, but he isn’t the law. They are two distinct and separate things.An ambassador speaks with the authority of the state he represents, but he isn’t that state. Etc.
Matthew 28:18-20
Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority (all power of absolute rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
So, someone gave it to him? So this is NOT an example of him claiming to be God, then.
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If not claim, it can definitely be considered passive acknowledgement. Ask whether the Jewish leaders misunderstood the personal statements' integrity, in condemning them as blasphemous. Then, as in Mark 10:18, why isn't it a point here to make of God the Father, if not the Son as well.
@divegeester saidHis ambassador, or messenger, in other words. Not God Himself. That’s exactly what Muslims believe (about both Mohammed and Jesus).
Jesus was God’s avatar.
That’s another way of explaining it.
A pagan once asked the Greek Oracle whether Jesus was God. The Oracle answered that Jesus was a man of great piety, but that those who worship him as God are making a grave error.
So, there you have it: three world religions, two of them older than Christianity (Judaism, paganism), hold Jesus to have been a great prophet (but not God Himself), and only one world religion worships him as God. 3:1.
I’m going with the most probable scenario … he died and is still dead. The resurrection-story was invented decades or even centuries after his death, to add poignancy to his life-story and teachings.
what he preached would be great idea, if people actually put it into practice: Love God, love yourself, love your fellow man, and follow the Commandments (especially: don’t kill, steal, tell lies, or covet your neighbor’s spouse or possessions).
The rest of the dogma surrounding this great prophet of forgiveness is fluff, invented by the Church for its own reasons.
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@divegeester saidThat applies only to the NT, not the Hebrew OT. It is certainly what the bishops at the Council of Nicea wanted people to believe.
I think there is a robust narrative throughout the bible that Jesus was indeed god himself in a veil of flesh.
@divegeester saidJesus cried out to God on the cross and asked why He had forsaken him. How is that in keeping with a 'robust narrative throughout the bible that Jesus was indeed god himself in a veil of flesh' ?
I think there is a robust narrative throughout the bible that Jesus was indeed god himself in a veil of flesh.
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidMoon has already asked this question of me and I gave a response.
Jesus cried out to God on the cross and asked why He had forsaken him. How is that in keeping with a 'robust narrative throughout the bible that Jesus was indeed god himself in a veil of flesh' ?
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@moonbus saidThere are also inferences in the OT. Isaiah has an obvious one.
That applies only to the NT, not the Hebrew OT.
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@divegeester saidFound it. You replied 'Jesus was both a man and God.'
Moon has already asked this question of me and I gave a response.
I don't think that addresses the issue, or why Jesus effectively cries out to himself. Any sensible reading of the passage shows them as two entirely separate entities.
Even taking your avatar comparison, why would an avatar cry out in such as fashion? What would be the point?
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@moonbus saidI think the biggest question is what benefit is there in claiming Jesus said He is God? Does it lead to some virtue? Would one be more accepted by God? Is someone who disagrees further from God ? What?
His ambassador, or messenger, in other words. Not God Himself. That’s exactly what Muslims believe (about both Mohammed and Jesus).
A pagan once asked the Greek Oracle whether Jesus was God. The Oracle answered that Jesus was a man of great piety, but that those who worship him as God are making a grave error.
So, there you have it: three world religions, two of them ...[text shortened]... surrounding this great prophet of forgiveness is fluff, invented by the Church for its own reasons.
There seems to be nothing but unnecessary academic wrangling and bible twisting.
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidI’m not sure why. I suppose he felt abandoned and sacrificed.
Even taking your avatar comparison, why would an avatar cry out in such as fashion? What would be the point?