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Originally posted by sonship[/b]You and KJ are underestimating or eilimating the need for Christians to work and try harder to become and live as more righteous people. You are placing the burden of this on God and Christ alone. God has a part to play. Christ has a part to play.. and Christians who profess Christ have a part to play. ALL have their part. Christians dont get to sit and practice mouth worship. That is the road to damnation which is the road that you seem be fond of.The thing is, again it is worth repeating that without Jesus Christ we are left in our sins before God, Jesus' blood cleans us of sins, if we are not cleaned by God of our sins we remain in them. If we remain in them, than when we stand before God on judgment day the accounting for those sins remain. If any thinks they can live righteously without Go ...[text shortened]... hepherd the church of God, which He obtained with His own blood." (See Acts 20:28)
The bible continues just after your very same 2 Cor 5 passage, in 2 Cor 6, a lecture on righteous living and then in 2 Cor 7 :
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (2 Corinthians 7:1 KJV)
After God promises, YOU HAVE TO CLEANSE YOURSELF
You and Kelly Jay and Josephw should go write that 1000 times, because you believe in professsing Christ and then DOING NOTHING. Your do nothing doctrine is garbage.
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-Removed-And some of those who do show an interest get rudely ignored.
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I noticed.
Ignored in the form of comments like - "Post is too long" or "Why listen? Someone else wrote that first before you."
Rudely ignored indeed.
divegeester to kellyJay: And some of those who do show an interest get rudely ignored.You "noticed" divegeester making comments like "Post is too long" or "Why listen? Someone else wrote that first before you" to KellyJay? Where? When?
Originally posted by sonship to divegeester
I noticed.
Ignored in the form of comments like - "Post is too long" or "Why listen? Someone else wrote that first before you."
Rudely ignored indeed.
Originally posted by sonship[/b]Yet instead of rejoicing over this salvation, it is belittled by some. It wasn't given so we couldThe thing is, again it is worth repeating that without Jesus Christ we are left in our sins before God, Jesus' blood cleans us of sins, if we are not cleaned by God of our sins we remain in them. If we remain in them, than when we stand before God on judgment day the accounting for those sins remain. If any thinks they can live righteously without Go ...[text shortened]... hepherd the church of God, which He obtained with His own blood." (See Acts 20:28)
continue in the thing God is saving us from, that is sin. It was given so we could be saved,
restored to the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. His life for ours, His righteousness for our
sins, He condemn sin us by what He did, not so we could live without Him, but with Him..
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Originally posted by KellyJayStop mouthworshipping and cleanse yourself..
Yet instead of rejoicing over this salvation, it is belittled by some. It wasn't given so we could
continue in the thing God is saving us from, that is sin. It was given so we could be saved,
restored to the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. His life for ours, His righteousness for our
sins, He condemn sin us by what He did, not so we could live without Him, but with Him..
God is not impressed with your talk and lip service.
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (2 Corinthians 7:1 KJV)
Originally posted by KellyJay"Belittled"? "By some"?
Yet instead of rejoicing over this salvation, it is belittled by some.
Do you actually think the huffy way you conduct yourself when airing your religious ideas somehow commands respect for them and reflects well upon the impact those ideas have on your demeanour and your intellectual behaviour?
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This is an interesting passage.
"Therefore since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and of spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Cor. 7:1)
On one hand the word of God says that the man JOINED to the Lord is one spirit with the Lord. This has to mean that two separated spirits - the human spirit and the Holy Spirit have become united.
So we ask HOW then could the NT speak of defilement of spirit ?
To answer this one should think of water passing through a hose. The water may be very clean. But if there is dirt in the hose when the water comes out it will carry with it some of that unleaness. The passage way is dirty and makes the outflow of the water mixed and defiled.
The Holy Spirit is one with the human spirit in the Christian (1 Cor. 6:17; Rom 8:16) .
But we human beings are a SOUL as well has have a SPIRIT. And the SOUL surrounds the spirit where the Spirit of God has made one third of our being as Christians - God.
If the soul is un-transformed when the Spirit of Christ flows out from our inner being through the channel of our surrounding soul the spiritual outflow can be defiled. This is the defilement of spirit.
The remedy is transformation of the soul.
And of course transformation of the soul by the Holy Spirit spreading its influence over more and more of the mind, emotion and will leads to the transformation of the soul.
Then as the soul is more and more transformed to be like Christ's soul, when the Holy Spirit flows out through that channel out to people it will be less defiled and tainted with unclean elements.
So Paul's word to be cleansed from defilement of the spirit is an exhortation to be transformed in the soul by Christ's operation from within.
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Originally posted by sonship
This is an interesting passage.[b] "Therefore since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and of spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Cor. 7:1)
On one hand the word of God says that the man JOINED to the Lord is one spirit with the Lord. This has to mean that two se ...[text shortened]... of the spirit is an exhortation to be transformed in the soul by Christ's operation from within.[/b]An interesting passage, and many like it in the Bible. Its only when i point them out then you find them interesting, otherwise you will ignore them and continue with your lip service doctrine.
Originally posted by sonship
This is an interesting passage.[b] "Therefore since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and of spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Cor. 7:1)
On one hand the word of God says that the man JOINED to the Lord is one spirit with the Lord. This has to mean that two se ...[text shortened]... of the spirit is an exhortation to be transformed in the soul by Christ's operation from within.[/b]Being born again, requires God, and those without God are just that, without God. Jesus
said as much when He pointed out that those who didn't believe in Him were condemn
already.
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"Therefore since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and of spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Cor. 7:1)
The spirit of man is joined to the Lord in regeneration. The Holy Spirit Who is God becomes one spirit with the human spirit.
This is related to the word in the same book Second Corinthians about the treasure IN the earthen vessel.
"But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us." ( 2 Cor. 4:7)
In interactions with other human beings the treasure of the divine life has to pass through the soul. The more the soul is transformed in Christ's salvation the more the outflow of the Spirit is without the defilement of the fallen vessel which contains Him.
With this need for the channel, the vessel to be sanctified, Paul exhorts the believers to deal with any tainting, defiling, polluting of the flowing out treasure with the defects of the surrounding vessel.
Remember the analogy of water passing through a clean hose as opposed to a dirty hose.
The condition of the hose will effect the outflow of the water passing out through it.
So by sanctification the Christians need to cleanse themselves from all defilement of spirit.
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Originally posted by FMFAsk him yourself.
You "noticed" divegeester making comments like [b]"Post is too long" or "Why listen? Someone else wrote that first before you" to KellyJay? Where? When?[/b]
See if it rings any bells -
ie. "No one reads long posts.
You copied from others and pretend its your own thoughts."
Comments along those lines - multiple times.
Ask him if he has ever made comments like that.
I don't need to spend time getting documentation on something quite memorable and obvious.
Originally posted by KellyJayBeing born again is no guarantee that you will be with God as you claim.
Being born again, requires God, and those without God are just that, without God. Jesus
said as much when He pointed out that those who didn't believe in Him were condemn
already.
Jesus said that those who did not follow his commandments are condemnd already.
Originally posted by sonshipMore do nothing false doctrine."Therefore since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and of spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Cor. 7:1)
The spirit of man is joined to the Lord in regeneration. The Holy Spirit Who is God becomes one spirit with the human spirit.
This is related to the word in the sam ...[text shortened]...
So by sanctification the Christians need to cleanse themselves from all defilement of spirit.
Sit there and Christ will do everything.
Originally posted by sonshipIf he directed comments like that at KellyJay, and if they were "quite memorable and obvious", then not only should you say where and when, but it ought to be easy too.
. Ask him if he has ever made comments like that. I don't need to spend time getting documentation on something quite memorable and obvious.