@fmf saidAgreed.
This is interestingly clear.
I note, however, that it brought on, by way of response, a bout of ideologically-driven exegesical contortions.
My question to Son is ...
Are you copying and pasting a lot of your answers from some form of on line text book other than the bible?
@philokalia saidNot really as the whole point of this this thread is to discuss the difference between spirit and soul.
The soul is the nous; or, it is what contains the nous.
The spirit can be used in a way that is the same as the soul, but it can also just be a very general, literary word meant to talk about the essence of a thing and the sentimental, metaphysical side of a thing generally.
Of course, this is all disputable.
We're talking about words, after all.
We can establish from scripture that the soul refers to the physical, whereas the spirit is not.
Not really as the whole point of this this thread is to discuss the difference between spirit and soul.
I do recognize what the main focus of the thread is. I did establish that.
We do get on side matters in the course of discussing the difference.
One of these involves where the soul is always and synonymous with the body. It is not synonymous with the body.
There are however places where the number of people was described as the number of souls.
We can establish from scripture that the soul refers to the physical, whereas the spirit is not.
With all due respect this would not be right.
And I gave the reasons above that the soul is not just the body.
Take the case of the prophet Samuel's immaterial part coming up out of Sheol.
The Scripture is emphatic, stating multiple times that it WAS Samuel.
1.) "Bring up Samuel to me" (1 Sam. 28:11)
2.) "Saul knew that it was Samuel, and bowed his face . . ." (v.14)
3.) "And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me ..." (v.15)
4.) "And Samuel said, Why then have you inquired of me?" (v.16)
Are you going to say the man brought up was not physically dead?
Are you going to argue that it was not Samuel who came up?
Why then does the word of God say it was Samuel ?
All the facts point to Samuel's body as being dead, buried.
All the facts point to Samuel coming up from the realm of the dead
anyway.
God made an exception in this case of bring up the dead which deceptive practice was strictly forbidden.
My opinion is that in this case angels as divine beings accompanied Samuel's soul and spirit up from Sheol where his soul was undisturbed and resting.
"And the woman said, I see some divine being coming up out of the earth." (v.13) Elohim could be taken as plural - implying she saw divine beings or angels accompanying the soul of Saul, God orchestrating his coming up rather than the medium witch.
Are you going to argue that it was the physical bones and flesh of the dead Samuel that came up ? It is better to believe it was his soul that was brought up.
Are you copying and pasting a lot of your answers from some form of on line text book other than the bible?
I am not pasting much.
I am copying verses from the Bible much by hand.
I prefer to do it that way because I can enjoy the verses better speaking, them while I am writing them. Or musing freshly over them as I look and copy.
The footnotes of the study bible I have are helpful - The Recovery Version.
And a book is opened which is a help by Robert Govett entitled Eternal Suffering of the Wicked and Hades. I am not verbatim copying usually.
Do not assume when I am using which helps.
These things are in me after years of study.
Sometimes I just go to tools to confirm.
Is there something basically wrong with deriving help from sources pre-researched and pre-written? By doing so am I doing something that you are not doing sometimes?
@sonship saidThough I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. (1 Corinthians 13:1-2 KJV)
@medullahAre you copying and pasting a lot of your answers from some form of on line text book other than the bible?
I am not pasting much.
I am copying verses from the Bible much by hand.
I prefer to do it that way because I can enjoy the verses better speaking, them while I am writing them. Or musing freshly over them as I look and copy.
...[text shortened]... pre-researched and pre-written? By doing so am I doing something that you are not doing sometimes?
You you know what Paul means by:
'sounding brass '
'tinkling cymbal'
'nothing'?
Verses of support can be put on this latter.
But in speaking of the difference between the human soul and the human spirit this is proposed.
In the normal created man in the beginning the spirit was to be the highest part of man. Below the spirit was to be the soul and the body.
The human spirit helps man to contact the spiritual realm of reality.
The human soul helps man to contact the psychological realm of reality.
The human body helps man to interact with the material and physical realm of
reality.
That is three parts for three dimensions.
In the fall of man the spirit was damaged and either the soul or the
body ascended to be the most prominent component.
When the soul is preeminent Paul referred to that as a soulish man.
When man is governed chiefly by his now fleshly and sin infested appetites
Paul refers to that as a fleshy man or a fleshly man.
When the regenerated spirit of man is strong and preeminent Paul refers to that as a "spiritual man".
Some Christians assume that as long as one has a regenerated spirit he qualifies as a "spiritual man". But the letter to the Christians in Corinth would not bear this out.
Among them who were regenerated with a living human spirit, some nonetheless were "soulish" and some were ever worse "fleshly" .
"Carnal" is another word for these saved believers in Corinth for whom the spiritual is present but very weak.
That's enough for this one post.
@vivify
Spirit
The Hebrew word ruʹach and the Greek word pneuʹma, often translated “spirit,” have a number of meanings. All of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight and gives evidence of force in motion. The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to (1) wind, (2) the active life-force in earthly creatures, (3) the impelling force that issues from a person’s figurative heart and causes him to say and do things in a certain way, (4) inspired expressions originating from an invisible source, (5) spirit persons, and (6) God’s active force, or holy spirit.—Ex 35:21; Ps 104:29; Mt 12:43; Lu 11:13. JW.ORG
@vivify
Soul
The traditional rendering of the Hebrew word neʹphesh and the Greek word psy·kheʹ. In examining the way these terms are used in the Bible, it becomes evident that they basically refer to (1) people, (2) animals, or (3) the life that a person or an animal has. (Ge 1:20; 2:7; Nu 31:28; 1Pe 3:20; also ftns.) In contrast to the way that the term “soul” is used in many religious contexts, the Bible shows that both neʹphesh and psy·kheʹ, in connection with earthly creatures, refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal. In this translation, these original-language words have most often been rendered according to their meaning in each context, using such terms as “life,” “creature,” “person,” “one’s whole being,” or simply as a personal pronoun (for example, “I” for “my soul. In most cases, footnotes or study notes give the alternative rendering “soul.” When the term “soul” is used in the main text, in footnotes, or in study notes, it should be understood in line with the above explanation. When referring to doing something with one’s whole soul, it means to do it with one’s whole being, wholeheartedly, or with one’s whole life. (De 6:5; Mt 22:37) In some contexts, these original-language words can be used to refer to the desire or appetite of a living creature. They can also refer to a dead person or a dead body.—Nu 6:6; Pr 23:2; Isa 56:11; Hag 2:13. JW.ORG
@galveston75 saidSo you are back in town. Nice. Posting copy and pastes from your JW website is really not a practice that will encourage people to read what you write. Give us your opinions and quote a couple of references. In other words do some real work.
@vivify
Soul
The traditional rendering of the Hebrew word neʹphesh and the Greek word psy·kheʹ. In examining the way these terms are used in the Bible, it becomes evident that they basically refer to (1) people, (2) animals, or (3) the life that a person or an animal has. (Ge 1:20; 2:7; Nu 31:28; 1Pe 3:20; also ftns.) In contrast to the way that the term “soul” is u ...[text shortened]... . They can also refer to a dead person or a dead body.—Nu 6:6; Pr 23:2; Isa 56:11; Hag 2:13. JW.ORG
I will not be debating directly with Galveston over Jehovah Witness doctrine.
If I speak to any matter introduced by Jehovah Witness teaching brought here by Galveston it will not be to change the mind of Galveston. But since poster Galveston is back understand that it is inevitable that we two will not be speaking the same things.
This will be the case with the nature of God, the nature of man, and the nature of salvation, and the work and Person of Christ. I and a Jehovah's Witness teacher will not be speaking similar teachings about the Bible.
Its a public forum.
So I need to clear up my reason for posting. I am not here to debate with anyone anymore. History has proved over and over that some here are only here to argue and to insult. I too have been guilty of that and I refuse to get caught up in that again.
This is a public forum and I have the right to post here just as all others do. So all can respond to my post publicly, but I will not respond publicly. If anyone would like to PM me to actually discuss what I post I may respond.
If you do not like my post, don't read them......................
@galveston75 saidYour inability or unwillingness to discuss topics you yourself raise is part of the discourse.
This is a public forum and I have the right to post here just as all others do. So all can respond to my post publicly, but I will not respond publicly.
