1. Joined
    05 Jan '04
    Moves
    45179
    20 Sep '05 15:071 edit
    "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also" - Matt. 5:39

    Should it be interpreted that Christians here who fire back sarcastic barbs and venomous insults of their own to antagonistic characters in the forum are disobeying the explicit commands of Jesus Christ or does the Christian have every right to retaliate when someone insults them and their beliefs even though it can be argued that the Messiah states otherwise? If being a Christian is to emualte Christ in all ways possible, what are we, as potential converts, to think of "Christians" who offer wise-ass retorts and shout hurtful epithets?
  2. Standard memberBosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    Spiel des Lebens
    Joined
    27 Jan '05
    Moves
    83887
    20 Sep '05 15:12
    Please mod all comments that are not pious, sanctimonious or just plain cheesy enough to be in the spiritual forum. Let's make a clean sweep, y'all.
  3. Felicific Forest
    Joined
    15 Dec '02
    Moves
    23709
    20 Sep '05 15:24
    FROM ST. FRANCIS DE SALES:

    "As soon as worldly people see that you wish to follow a devout life they aim a thousand darts of mockery and even detraction at you. The most malicious of them will slander your conversion as hypocrisy, bigotry, and trickery. They will say that the world has turned against you and being rebuffed by it you have turned to God. Your friends will raise a host of objections which they consider very prudent and charitable. They will tell you that you will become depressed, lose your reputation in the world, be unbearable, and grow old before your time, and that your affairs at home will suffer. You must live in the world like one in the world. They will say that you can save your soul without going to such extremes, and a thousand similar trivialities.

    Philothea, all this is mere foolish, empty babbling. These people aren't interested in your health or welfare. "If you were of the world, the world would love what is its own but because you are not of the world, therefore the world hates you," says the Savior. We have seen gentlemen and ladies spend the whole night, even many nights one after another, playing chess or cards. Is there any concentration more absurd, gloomy, or depressing than this last? Yet worldly people don't say a word and the players' friends don't bother their heads about it. If we spend an hour in meditation or get up a little earlier than usual in the morning to prepare for Holy Communion, everyone runs for a doctor to cure us of hypochondria and jaundice. People can pass thirty nights in dancing and no one complains about it, but if they watch through a single Christmas night they cough and claim their stomach is upset the next morning. Does anyone fail to see that the world is an unjust judge, gracious and well disposed to its own children but harsh and rigorous towards the children of God?

    We can never please the world unless we lose ourselves together with it. It is so demanding that it can't be satisfied. "John came neither eating nor drinking," says the Savior, and you say, "He has a devil." "The Son of man came eating and drinking" and you say that he is "a Samaritan." It is true, Philothea, that if we are ready to laugh, play cards, or dance with the world in order to please it, it will be scandalized at us, and if we don't, it will accuse us of hypocrisy or melancholy. If we dress well, it will attribute it to some plan we have, and if we neglect our dress, it will accuse of us of being cheap and stingy. Good humor will be called frivolity and mortification sullenness. Thus the world looks at us with an evil eye and we can never please it. It exaggerates our imperfections and claims they are sins, turns our venial sins into mortal sins and changes our sins of weakness into sins of malice.

    "Charity is kind," says Saint Paul, but the world on the contrary is evil. "Charity thinks no evil," but the world always thinks evil and when it can't condemn our acts it will condemn our intentions. Whether the sheep have horns or not and whether they are white or black, the wolf doesn't hesitate to eat them if he can. Whatever we do, the world will wage war on us. If we stay a long time in the confessional, it will wonder how we can have so much to say; if we stay only a short time, it will say we haven't told everything. It will watch all our actions and at a single little angry word it will protest that we can't get along with anyone. To take care of our own interests will look like avarice, while meekness will look like folly. As for the children of the world, their anger is called being blunt, their avarice economy, their intimate conversations lawful discussions. Spiders always spoil the good work of the bees.

    Let us give up this blind world, Philothea. Let it cry out at us as long as it pleases, like a cat that cries out to frighten birds in the daytime. Let us be firm in our purposes and unswerving in our resolutions. Perseverance will prove whether we have sincerely sacrificed ourselves to God and dedicated ourselves to a devout life. Comets and planets seem to have just about the same light, but comets are merely fiery masses that pass by and after a while disappear, while planets remain perpetually bright. So also hypocrisy and true virtue have a close resemblance in outward appearance but they can be easily distinguished from one another. Hypocrisy cannot last long but is quickly dissipated like rising smoke, whereas true virtue is always firm and constant. It is no little assistance for a sure start in devotion if we first suffer criticism and calumny because of it. In this way we escape the danger of pride and vanity, which are comparable to the Egyptian midwives whom a cruel Pharaoh had ordered to kill the Israelites' male children on the very day of their birth. We are crucified to the world and the world must be crucified to us. The world holds us to be fools; let us hold it to be mad."

    St. Frances de Sales from Introduction to the Divine Life on seeking holiness and how the world responds.
  4. Joined
    05 Jan '04
    Moves
    45179
    20 Sep '05 15:35
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    FROM ST. FRANCIS DE SALES:

    "As soon as worldly people see that you wish to follow a devout life they aim a thousand darts of mockery and even detraction at you. The most malicious of them will slander your conversion as hypocrisy, bigotry, and trickery. They will say that the world has turned against you and being rebuffed by it you have turned to God. ...[text shortened]... es de Sales from Introduction to the Divine Life on seeking holiness and how the world responds.
    That's a very pretty essay, Ivanhoe, which I suppose answers one of my two questions. But would you care to give your opinion on how Christians are to appropriately act while being attacked, mocked, persecuted, etc.?
  5. Felicific Forest
    Joined
    15 Dec '02
    Moves
    23709
    20 Sep '05 15:52
    Originally posted by darvlay
    That's a very pretty essay, Ivanhoe, which I suppose answers one of my two questions. But would you care to give your opinion on how Christians are to appropriately act while being attacked, mocked, persecuted, etc.?
    I invite you to give your opinion on the matter. You must have thought about, haven't you ?
  6. Standard memberfrogstomp
    Bruno's Ghost
    In a hot place
    Joined
    11 Sep '04
    Moves
    7707
    20 Sep '05 16:05
    Originally posted by darvlay
    That's a very pretty essay, Ivanhoe, which I suppose answers one of my two questions. But would you care to give your opinion on how Christians are to appropriately act while being attacked, mocked, persecuted, etc.?
    jeez, what windbags those doctrinists are:

    In engineering terms : the more complex the system the greater the the risk of malfunction.

    You asked a simple question and got hot air for an answer.
  7. Hamelin: RAT-free
    Joined
    17 Sep '05
    Moves
    888
    20 Sep '05 16:09
    Are you a follower of any Crowley philosophies? Interested...
  8. Joined
    06 Jul '05
    Moves
    2182
    20 Sep '05 16:17
    Originally posted by darvlay
    If being a Christian is to emualte [sic] Christ in all ways possible, what are we, as potential converts, to think of "Christians" who offer wise-ass retorts and shout hurtful epithets?
    No matter what faith we espouse, we remain human beings. I am a meditator, yet I have my quirks and flaws. It galls me a little bit when people see me in a moment of pique and say, "Oho! Not very Buddhist of you!" (Heck, do they imagine I started meditating because I was flawless and happy all the time?)

    Likewise, I don't think a person is any less of a Christian just because they have faults. That is what leads some of us to follow an example (like the one of Jesus) in the first place. Finding our own realization of that requires a lot of falling over and screwing up. I prefer not to knock people's religion just because of that.

    On the other hand, those who keep demanding that others believe the same things they do might bear their own imperfections in mind, and consider whether they are of a stature to lead others.
  9. Felicific Forest
    Joined
    15 Dec '02
    Moves
    23709
    20 Sep '05 16:20
    Originally posted by Algernon
    No matter what faith we espouse, we remain human beings. I am a meditator, yet I have my quirks and flaws. It galls me a little bit when people see me in a moment of pique and say, "Oho! Not very Buddhist of you!" (Heck, do they imagine I started meditating because I was flawless and happy all the time?)

    Likewise, I don't think a person is any ...[text shortened]... bear their own imperfections in mind, and consider whether they are of a stature to lead others.
    Hear, hear.
  10. Standard memberMoldy Crow
    Your Eminence
    Scunthorpe
    Joined
    16 Dec '04
    Moves
    13395
    20 Sep '05 16:38
    Originally posted by Algernon
    No matter what faith we espouse, we remain human beings. I am a meditator, yet I have my quirks and flaws. It galls me a little bit when people see me in a moment of pique and say, "Oho! Not very Buddhist of you!" (Heck, do they imagine I started meditating because I was flawless and happy all the time?)

    Likewise, I don't think a person is any ...[text shortened]... bear their own imperfections in mind, and consider whether they are of a stature to lead others.
    So you're falling back on the old cliche' "Xtians aren't perfect , just forgiven." ? I usually hear this one trotted out whenever you want to imbibe in , excuse away , or cover up any behavior that is in conflict with what you preach to/demand of other's . It's the lamest attempt to cover hypocrisy I have ever seen , yet you never tire of it . Come on literalist xtians - "IT SAYS IN THE BIBLE god made adam and eve , and there was a flood covering it completely , and earth is only 7000 years old , and you're all going to hell if you don't accept jesus no matter what your circumstances ! GOD SAID IT , I BELIEVE IT , THAT SETTLES IT !!!!!!" How many times do you daily try to shove this absolutism down everyone's throat ?

    But turn the other cheek ?" No way , I'm human , jesus will forgive me , I really don't need to heed that one . It's no big deal" .


    Refer to this post when you wonder why so many of us hold you , your religion , and your pathetic attempts at converting us ALL in utter contempt .
  11. Joined
    05 Jan '04
    Moves
    45179
    20 Sep '05 16:53
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    I invite you to give your opinion on the matter. You must have thought about, haven't you ?
    My opinion, as a non-believer, is that they are in contravention of the teachings of Christ, and are therefore not being very Christ-like. However I am much more interested in the Christian point-of-view. Are outbursts excusable? We are human after all. But at what point does it become sinful to continue on?
  12. Joined
    05 Jan '04
    Moves
    45179
    20 Sep '05 16:55
    Originally posted by RatX
    Are you a follower of any Crowley philosophies? Interested...
    Not really, to be honest. I find him to be quite the kook.
  13. Felicific Forest
    Joined
    15 Dec '02
    Moves
    23709
    20 Sep '05 17:01
    Originally posted by darvlay
    My opinion, as a non-believer, is that they are in contravention of the teachings of Christ, and are therefore not being very Christ-like. However I am much more interested in the Christian point-of-view. Are outbursts excusable? We are human after all. But at what point does it become sinful to continue on?
    I don't know.
  14. Standard memberHalitose
    I stink, ergo I am
    On the rebound
    Joined
    14 Jul '05
    Moves
    4464
    20 Sep '05 17:04
    Originally posted by Moldy Crow
    So you're falling back on the old cliche' "Xtians aren't perfect , just forgiven." ? I usually hear this one trotted out whenever you want to imbibe in , excuse away , or cover up any behavior that is in conflict with what you preach to/demand of other's . It's the lamest attempt to cover hypocrisy I have ever seen , yet you never tire of it . Come ...[text shortened]... s hold you , your religion , and your pathetic attempts at converting us ALL in utter contempt .
    You will actually find exceptions to all rules, especially within Christian morality. To say: Xtians aren't perfect, just forgiven don't cut it for me. How about: Xtians aren't perfect, but they are stiving towards it. This might be a little closer to the mark. I'm not excusing flying off the handle, but I contend that there are some Xtians who do actually turn the other cheek.
  15. Standard memberHalitose
    I stink, ergo I am
    On the rebound
    Joined
    14 Jul '05
    Moves
    4464
    20 Sep '05 17:06
    Originally posted by darvlay
    My opinion, as a non-believer, is that they are in contravention of the teachings of Christ, and are therefore not being very Christ-like. However I am much more interested in the Christian point-of-view. Are outbursts excusable? We are human after all. But at what point does it become sinful to continue on?
    Cut 'n paste. I'm sorry, but since you are asking for the Christian view here's another verse:

    Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Back to Top