Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Feb '19 09:141 edit
    I have a Christian friend whose Muslim husband has apparently as good as abandoned her and their two children [after almost 20 years' marriage]. He lives in a distant city and sends no money. She wants to divorce but wants to do it with her [Protestant] church's blessing. What about 1 Corinthians 7?

    12 To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. 13 If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. 15 But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.16 For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?


    Is a Muslim an "unbelieving partner"? Has he 'left'*** her from the perspective of the above scripture?

    *** Edit: I've just noticed that the text above uses the word 'separates' and not 'leaves'. I had been looking at the NIV version: verse 15 - "But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace." I have been discussing it with her in Indonesian, so it's a wee bit confusing.
  2. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    26 Feb '19 09:55
    Is he not sending money because he does not have the means, or is he not sending money because he has chosen to abandon the family?

    If it is the latter, it constitutes abandonment.

    There are four reasons recognized for divorce in Orthodox canon law, as I remember it, which are outlined in different places...

    One simply says "adultery" and "abandonment," and another is more detailed, and usually the more detailed clauses have exceptions in different areas in different transmissions. But to put it very simply, the generally recognized reasons all fall into either adultery or abandonment, and a real quick rundown of clauses:

    - Adultery
    - Abandonment
    - Apostasy (only applicable to marriage with another Christian)
    - Banning the spouse or children from attending Church
    - Entrance of one spouse into monastic life (but only with the permission of the other spouse)

    Christians are allowed, in Orthodoxy, to marry any non-Christian and this is usually with the caveat that the spouse and children cannot be prevented in any way from attending Church. I believe that it states, though, somewhere, that heretical Christians are not marriageable because they count as being in some sort of constant state of apostasy and blasphemy. This does not apply to the 'heterodox,' which are any non-Orthodox Trinitarian Christians and which constitutes pretty much every major sect.

    It should also be said that divorce is normally not recommended as an immediate response to adultery or abandonment but a long series of efforts should be made to resolve the problem....

    Moreover, any marriages after the first are considered less Holy and more like... exceptions for the parties involved. They are blessed but in a different way. I don't really know how that works.
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Feb '19 10:141 edit
    @philokalia said
    Is he not sending money because he does not have the means, or is he not sending money because he has chosen to abandon the family?

    If it is the latter, it constitutes abandonment.

    There are four reasons recognized for divorce in Orthodox canon law, as I remember it, which are outlined in different places...

    One simply says "adultery" and "abandonment," and ano ...[text shortened]... e parties involved.[/i] They are blessed but in a different way. I don't really know how that works.
    Thanks. I'm sure she can look up "Orthodox canon law" on the internet if she wants to - assuming it's been translated into Indonesian.

    As for, 1 Corinthians 7, do you think her husband is an "unbelieving partner". If it is deemed he has left her, do you think she can marry again - from a purely biblical point of view [so I am not talking about according to the point of view of your denomination]?
  4. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    26 Feb '19 10:25
    Oh yeah, I would say that she has been abandoned and if the husband is not sending her money and not being forthcoming as to why that is (or being deceptive), she has full grounds for divorce and it could be said that she is maybe obligated to divorce for the sake of her children...

    And I believe that the Bible allows people to marry non-Christians. Muslims are non-Christians. They are... non-believers, 'unbelievers.' So yeah, he's a non-believer.

    And she would be allowed to remarry another Muslim, or a Hindu, or an atheist, after the divorce. It would be her choice.
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Feb '19 10:31
    @philokalia said
    And she would be allowed to remarry another Muslim, or a Hindu, or an atheist, after the divorce. It would be her choice.
    What about marrying a fellow Christian ~ albeit in what you describe as a "less holy" marriage?
  6. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    26 Feb '19 19:56
    Conversely, my first wife divorced me for religious reasons.

    She worshiped money, and I didn’t have any.
  7. Stargazing
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    26 Feb '19 21:25
    @philokalia said
    Is he not sending money because he does not have the means, or is he not sending money because he has chosen to abandon the family?

    If it is the latter, it constitutes abandonment.

    There are four reasons recognized for divorce in Orthodox canon law, as I remember it, which are outlined in different places...

    One simply says "adultery" and "abandonment," and ano ...[text shortened]... e parties involved.[/i] They are blessed but in a different way. I don't really know how that works.
    Is it 4 or 5 reasons?
  8. Stargazing
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    26 Feb '19 21:27
    @fmf said
    I have a Christian friend whose Muslim husband has apparently as good as abandoned her and their two children [after almost 20 years' marriage]. He lives in a distant city and sends no money. She wants to divorce but wants to do it with her [Protestant] church's blessing. What about 1 Corinthians 7?

    [quote]12 To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife ...[text shortened]... us to live in peace." I have been discussing it with her in Indonesian, so it's a wee bit confusing.
    It looks like abandonment and is a scripturally legitimate reason for divorce.
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    27 Feb '19 00:39
    @fmf said
    I have a Christian friend whose Muslim husband has apparently as good as abandoned her and their two children [after almost 20 years' marriage]. He lives in a distant city and sends no money. She wants to divorce but wants to do it with her [Protestant] church's blessing. What about 1 Corinthians 7?

    [quote]12 To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife ...[text shortened]... us to live in peace." I have been discussing it with her in Indonesian, so it's a wee bit confusing.
    It actually says not to be unequally yoked, i.e. she should not have married him in the first place.
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    @divegeester said
    It looks like abandonment and is a scripturally legitimate reason for divorce.
    I believe cheating on your spouse is grounds for divorce Biblically.

    So who knows, maybe he chose to remain celibate all these years.

    LOL.
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Feb '19 00:40
    @whodey said
    It actually says not to be unequally yoked, i.e. she should not have married him in the first place.
    Explain.
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    27 Feb '19 00:421 edit
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    Conversely, my first wife divorced me for religious reasons.

    She worshiped money, and I didn’t have any.
    Sounds like you are better off.

    That reminds me of a joke.

    So this guy walks into a bar and tells the bartender, "Give me a drink, my best friend Ted just ran off with my wife"

    To which the bartender said, "The drink is on me my friend, BTW, I had no idea Ted was your best friend, to which he retorted,

    "He is now".
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Feb '19 00:43
    @whodey said
    I believe cheating on your spouse is grounds for divorce Biblically.

    So who knows, maybe he chose to remain celibate all these years.

    LOL.
    I am talking about real people, whodey. If I wanted to introduce "cheating" as a factor in my question about 1 Corinthians 7, I would have done so. If you're looking for "LOLs", perhaps try another thread. Just a thought.
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    27 Feb '19 00:44
    @fmf said
    Explain.
    2 Corinthians 6:14

    Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

    Its just good common sense really. Whatever makes you tick, you best share it with whom you marry.
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    27 Feb '19 00:45
    @fmf said
    I am talking about real people, whodey. If I wanted to introduce "cheating" as a factor in my question about 1 Corinthians 7, I would have done so. If you're looking for "LOLs", perhaps try another thread. Just a thought.
    I think it safe to assume he has found someone else, no?
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