Originally posted by DoctorScribblesSo now we are discussing the the unknown layers of the creator/creation cycles.
[b]No no no! You only posited that a more powerful God created God. You didn't speak to that God's creator,
I would call that: Polytheistic Pantheism
If there ever was a heaven I would vote to let all creatures in, except those negative, death-dealing christians.
The first act of the christians after christianity was made the official church of the Romans was to start persecuting all the other religions. Must be love!
Originally posted by dj2beckerSo, not everything that exists must have had a cause. If so, then the principle "everything that exists must have had a cause" is false, and thus the cosmological proof of God's existence is unsound. Rejecting the principle of sufficient reason cuts both ways.
And Huffy and Puffy created Muffy? Muffy solves nothing.
Here is the only solution:
*There is only one God and he was never created because he is eternal.*
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Originally posted by Bosse de NageYou are free to believe that if you want to. You can believe that there is no God. Then you can be God. But the problem is then who created you? Well you can say that you evolved... But then the question arises: Where did energy and matter come from? You can say it has always been. Fine. But you are then no better off than the one that says God has always been. It all boils down to a matter of faith.
As regards being uncreated:
How about the none God?
Originally posted by dj2beckerNo, you are wrong again. Rejection of the principle of sufficient reason entails merely that there is something or other that wasn't brought into being by a prior cause. This does not entail anything at all about the justification theists and atheists have (or, in the prior case, lack) for their beliefs. That is, rejection of the principle of sufficient reason does not entail or even suggest that it "all boils down to a matter of faith".
You are free to believe that if you want to. You can believe that there is no God. Then you can be God. But the problem is then who created you? Well you can say that you evolved... But then the question arises: Where did energy and matter come from? You can say it has always been. Fine. But you are then no better off than the one that says God has always been. It all boils down to a matter of faith.
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Originally posted by bbarrWith this type of reasoning you are rejecting the possibility of anything being eternal.
So, not everything that exists must have had a cause. If so, then the principle "everything that exists must have had a cause" is false, and thus the cosmological proof of God's existence is unsound. Rejecting the principle of sufficient reason cuts both ways.
I would rather say that "everything that has a beggining has a cause".
Originally posted by dj2beckerNo, I'm not rejecting that possibility, as even a cursory examination of my actual post would reveal to all but the most profoundly retarded. The rejection of the principle of sufficient reason is perfectly compatible with the existence of something eternal, and nothing in my post above suggests otherwise. Learn to read, dj2becker!
With this type of reasoning you are rejecting the possibility of anything being eternal.
I would rather say that "everything that has a beggining has a cause".
Originally posted by dj2beckerI think you missed the point of my hearty little quip. Good morning.
You are free to believe that if you want to. You can believe that there is no God. Then you can be God. But the problem is then who created you? Well you can say that you evolved... But then the question arises: Where did energy and matter come from? You can say it has always been. Fine. But you are then no better off than the one that says God has always been. It all boils down to a matter of faith.
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Originally posted by bbarrThe rejection of the principle of sufficient reason is perfectly compatible with the existence of something eternal
No, I'm not rejecting that possibility, as even a cursory examination of my actual post would reveal to all but the most profoundly retarded. The rejection of the principle of sufficient reason is perfectly compatible with the existence of something eternal, and nothing in my post above suggests otherwise. Learn to read, dj2becker!
I think I misunderstood you.
And how does the existance of something that is eternal not boil down to a matter of faith?
How would a mortal man go about proving whether something is eternal?
I believe this is where faith plays a role.
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Originally posted by bbarrIf so, then the principle "everything that exists must have had a cause" is false
So, not everything that exists must have had a cause. If so, then the principle "everything that exists must have had a cause" is false, and thus the cosmological proof of God's existence is unsound. Rejecting the principle of sufficient reason cuts both ways.
How could something that is eternal have a cause?
Originally posted by The Chess Expressthanks The Chess Express.
Yes, I do believe that animals go to Heaven. I'm not sure if it is the same Heaven that we go to. I do believe that God takes care of them though.
It all goes back to the soul. Everybody knows that animals are alive and that they have personalities. This is really all the evidence that I need. It's true that they don't reason the way we do, ...[text shortened]... won't come back as humans?
By the way, does anybody know where the Bible talks about this?
finally someone who is answering my question seriously.
do you think ALL animals go to heaven, or just the good ones?
Originally posted by checkbaiteris God talking about heaven here?
Isa 65:17-25
17"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former shall not be remembered or come to mind...........Text shortened.......The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain," says the LORD.
(NKJ)
Yes, there will be animals, but not resurrected animals...I don't think.
🙂
sounds like a bum deal for the serpent, but maybe that the idea.
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Sorry for the cut and paste, but I hope this helps:
A controversial question is whether it is God's plan for animals to be in heaven or not. Many Christians believe that heaven just would not be heaven without animals. Certainly I believe that the Creator of millions of different species of animals, birds, insects and fish is a God who loves variety and prizes His creation. I cannot believe that Heaven will only be populated by angels and saints. From a careful study of the Bible I have become convinced that Heaven will be richer in vegetation and animal life than the most paradise-like part of earth could ever be. Where people get the idea of harps and clouds from, I don't know. God has a far greater plan than we can imagine.
"This plan, which God will complete when the time is right, is to bring all creation together, everything in heaven and on earth, with Christ as head." Ephesians 1:10
"Wolves and sheep will live together in peace, and leopards will lie down with young goats, calves and lion cubs will feed together, and little children will take care of them. Cows and bears will eat together, and their calves and cubs will lie down in peace. Lions will eat straw as cattle do . . . The land will be as full of knowledge of the Lord as the seas are full of water." Isaiah 11:6-9
"Search in the Lord's book of living creatures and read what it says. Not one of these creatures will be missing and not one will be without its mate. The Lord has commanded it to be so; He Himself will bring them together. It is the Lord who will divide the land among them and give each of them a share. They will live in the land age after age, and it will belong to them for ever." Isaiah 34:16, 17
When the revealed Word of God teaches us that God's eternal plan is for "all creation" to be brought together under Christ then it includes all wildlife too. When God says "everything", He means everything - animals included.
When He says that they will live for "age after age", "forever", this means eternal life. Only one place will last forever, and that is Heaven.
That great book of worship in the Bible - the Psalms - reveals that all God's creation have contact with God (Psalm 93). All God's creatures praise Him (Psalm 145:10). It is only mankind who needs forgiving and saving and teaching as to how to worship (Psalm 36 & 51), the animal kingdom worships God continually and naturally.
"Praise Him, hills and mountains, fruit trees and forests; all animals, tame and wild, reptiles and birds." Psalm 148:9, 10
"Be glad, earth and sky! Roar sea and every creature in you: be glad fields and everything in you! The trees in the woods will shout for joy." Psalm 96:11, 12
The last book of the Bible presents the final climax of the ages when all creation faces the Creator. First the four living creatures (the animal-like angels around God's throne as described in Ezekiel) praise God, then the twenty-four elders, then the redeemed people of God, then the angels (Revelation 4:6 - 5:12), until finally the great scene is described when all living beings present their worship to Almighty God.
"And then I heard every creature in heaven, on earth, in the world below, and in the sea - all living beings in the universe - and they were singing: 'To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb, be praise and honour, glory and might, forever and ever'."
Revelation 5:13
In the light of these Scriptures, I firmly believe that our loving almighty Creator intends all His creatures to enjoy heaven with Him forever. The only part of creation that will be missing from Heaven, according to the Bible, are those sinful human beings who neglect the great salvation that God has revealed in the Bible and provided through Christ. So while all the animal victims of scientific experiments will be in Heaven, the same cannot be said for all the hardhearted vivisectionists and ivory poachers.
http://www.frontline.org.za/articles/animals.htm