@Suzianne said@Suzianne,
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Matthew 24:6-8, KJV
The none believers will always be non-believers! We will not change their minds but we can pray for them. 😉
-VR
@Suzianne saidYep. Those are the generic predictions used throughout the centuries to foretell the end of times. Where are the ones that speak specifically and clearly about current world events?
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Matthew 24:6-8, KJV
Nations were rising up against nations in Napoleonic times, famines and pestilence during the middle ages. etc
@Very-Rusty saidAtheists don't want or need your prayers. But they would quite like you not to make assertions you can't substantiate.
@Suzianne,
The none believers will always be non-believers! We will not change their minds but we can pray for them. 😉
-VR
But here you go. - The Lord of the Rings also predicted current world events. I won't though attempt to justify that assertion as you are not a believer in Tolkien.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidThis Matthew quote is the best I can do for you. I guess the key is these things happening together.
Yep. Those are the generic predictions used throughout the centuries to foretell the end of times. Where are the ones that speak specifically and clearly about current world events?
Nations were rising up against nations in Napoleonic times, famines and pestilence during the middle ages. etc
Matthew wrote for believers. Most of it is Jesus speaking to the Apostles.
And again, you know I believe that one of the cornerstones of Christianity is free will. Nothing can be proven, so as to give man the complete free will to believe or disbelieve. It is all up to us, personally. This is how it must be. It's not going to be written out how we must believe. We have to come to our own conclusions, sans proof, with faith, so none can say they were coerced.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidBut Tolkien was a believer in God.
Atheists don't want or need your prayers. But they would quite like you not to make assertions you can't substantiate.
But here you go. - The Lord of the Rings also predicted current world events. I won't though attempt to justify that assertion as you are not a believer in Tolkien.
Tolkien was a devout Roman Catholic. He frequently described his faith as integral to his life and work, stating, "I am a Christian (which can be deduced from my stories)". His Catholicism was a significant influence on his writings, though he insisted they were not allegorical representations of Christian doctrine.
While not explicitly allegorical, Tolkien's faith shaped his worldview and informed his stories, particularly The Lord of the Rings, which he described as a "fundamentally religious and Catholic work".
Themes of good versus evil, sacrifice, redemption, and the presence of a higher power, though not directly Christian, are consistent with his Catholic worldview.
@Very-Rusty saidThey are not damned simply for their unbelief.
@Suzianne,
The none believers will always be non-believers! We will not change their minds but we can pray for them. 😉
-VR
I believe that in the end, all but the most hardcore will "see the light".
God would prefer that more, rather than a few, pass his master class.
@Very-Rusty saidRelax, the Good Shepherd is on the job. 🙂
May the Lord look over all the lost souls that have lost their way!
May he have mercy on their souls!
-VR
@Suzianne saidIndeed! Only because he is a forgiving God!
They are not damned simply for their unbelief.
I believe that in the end, all but the most hardcore will "see the light".
God would prefer that more, rather than a few, pass his master class.
It is still good for us to pray for all the non-believers in my most humble opinion. 😉
Whether they want prayer or not doesn't matter.
In my nightly prayers I pray for the non-believers as well as those who believe.
I am quite relaxed, 🙂
-VR
Let's try this one on for size.
Daniel 8, NIV
Daniel’s Vision of a Ram and a Goat
8 In the third year of King Belshazzar’s reign, I, Daniel, had a vision, after the one that had already appeared to me. 2 In my vision I saw myself in the citadel of Susa in the province of Elam; in the vision I was beside the Ulai Canal. 3 I looked up, and there before me was a ram with two horns, standing beside the canal, and the horns were long. One of the horns was longer than the other but grew up later. 4 I watched the ram as it charged toward the west and the north and the south. No animal could stand against it, and none could rescue from its power. It did as it pleased and became great.
5 As I was thinking about this, suddenly a goat with a prominent horn between its eyes came from the west, crossing the whole earth without touching the ground. 6 It came toward the two-horned ram I had seen standing beside the canal and charged at it in great rage. 7 I saw it attack the ram furiously, striking the ram and shattering its two horns. The ram was powerless to stand against it; the goat knocked it to the ground and trampled on it, and none could rescue the ram from its power. 8 The goat became very great, but at the height of its power the large horn was broken off, and in its place four prominent horns grew up toward the four winds of heaven.
9 Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land. 10 It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. 11 It set itself up to be as great as the commander of the army of the Lord; it took away the daily sacrifice from the Lord, and his sanctuary was thrown down. 12 Because of rebellion, the Lord’s people(a) and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?”
14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”
The Interpretation of the Vision
15 While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it, there before me stood one who looked like a man. 16 And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai calling, “Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision.”
17 As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. “Son of man,”(b) he said to me, “understand that the vision concerns the time of the end.”
18 While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground. Then he touched me and raised me to my feet.
19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end.(c) 20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king. 22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power.
23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise. 24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy those who are mighty, the holy people. 25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.
26 “The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future.”
27 I, Daniel, was worn out. I lay exhausted for several days. Then I got up and went about the king’s business. I was appalled by the vision; it was beyond understanding.
Footnotes
(a) Daniel 8:12 Or rebellion, the armies
(b) Daniel 8:17 The Hebrew phrase ben adam means human being. The phrase son of man is retained as a form of address here because of its possible association with “Son of Man” in the New Testament.
(c) Daniel 8:19 Or because the end will be at the appointed time
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Now who does this King (bolded text) sound like? -- Suzi
@Suzianne saidBut that's the point, these things have been happening together for centuries. 2025 is no way unique for having nation rise up against nation in a background of famine, pestilence and earthquakes. These things are part of the human journey through history. A person in the 1600's could just as easily look at the world around them and evidence the same biblical predictions. (And I'm sure did so). Today it may be Covid, in 17th century the black death.
This Matthew quote is the best I can do for you. I guess the key is these things happening together.
Matthew wrote for believers. Most of it is Jesus speaking to the Apostles.
And again, you know I believe that one of the cornerstones of Christianity is free will. Nothing can be proven, so as to give man the complete free will to believe or disbelieve. It is all up ...[text shortened]... We have to come to our own conclusions, sans proof, with faith, so none can say they were coerced.
Any assertion (not yours) that 'all current world events have been predicted in the bible' is profoundly childlike in its ignorance.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke said@ Ghost,
But that's the point, these things have been happening together for centuries. 2025 is no way unique for having nation rise up against nation in a background of famine, pestilence and earthquakes. These things are part of the human journey through history. A person in the 1600's could just as easily look at the world around them and evidence the same biblical predicti ...[text shortened]... all current world events have been predicted in the bible' is profoundly childlike in its ignorance.
Have you stopped to think you may be thought to sound quite child like yourself? Of course not, you think you know everything which of course everyone knows is not the case.
-VR
@Very-Rusty saidThis forum isn't for you.
@ Ghost,
Have you stopped to think you may be thought to sound quite child like yourself? Of course not, you think you know everything which of course everyone knows is not the case.
-VR
Maybe petition Russ for a forum dedicated to making assertions you don't have to evidence.