1. Standard memberchaney3
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    17 Aug '15 21:39
    I have previously admitted that I was involved with Alcoholics Anonymous.

    AA's doctrine (not mine), says that ONLY God can help an alcoholic, and that if the alcoholic just asks God for help, then God will help them.

    Really?

    Does anyone believe that God answers prayers? And, that God will involve Himself in a persons life upon request? I do not.

    In an average Christian/Catholic life, it would be nice if God answered a prayer. But, in the lives of people in AA....it is ESSENTIAL that God answers the prayers of the alcoholic, otherwise.....that person will fail.

    Basically, does anyone believe without a doubt, that God actually answers our prayers?
  2. Standard memberKellyJay
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    17 Aug '15 21:441 edit
    Originally posted by chaney3
    I have previously admitted that I was involved with Alcoholics Anonymous.

    AA's doctrine (not mine), says that ONLY God can help an alcoholic, and that if the alcoholic just asks God for help, then God will help them.

    Really?

    Does anyone believe that God answers prayers? And, that God will involve Himself in a persons life upon request? I do not.
    ...[text shortened]... fail.

    Basically, does anyone believe without a doubt, that God actually answers our prayers?
    Yes He does answer prayers, He does not always do it the way we want, but He does.
    I find the best kinds of prayers are the totally honest kind, if you are down and out and
    have next to no faith in God, start there! *admit it and move on* It is better than trying to
    lie to God to get Him to act on your behalf.
  3. Standard memberchaney3
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    17 Aug '15 21:50
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Yes He does answer prayers, He does not always do it the way we want, but He does.
    I find the best kinds of prayers are the totally honest kind, if you are down and out and
    have next to no faith in God, start there! *admit it and move on* It is better than trying to
    lie to God to get Him to act on your behalf.
    Thanks KellyJay. To be curious, has God answered your prayers in any way?

    No personal details, of course, but......He has answered you?
  4. Hmmm . . .
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    17 Aug '15 21:58
    Originally posted by chaney3
    I have previously admitted that I was involved with Alcoholics Anonymous.

    AA's doctrine (not mine), says that ONLY God can help an alcoholic, and that if the alcoholic just asks God for help, then God will help them.

    Really?

    Does anyone believe that God answers prayers? And, that God will involve Himself in a persons life upon request? I do not.
    ...[text shortened]... fail.

    Basically, does anyone believe without a doubt, that God actually answers our prayers?
    Actually, chaney, AA “doctrine” does not say that. The language available to the founders (and in the Big Book) was what they had available to them, and is culture-bound. But any “power greater than yourself” (that’s is, your small ego-self)—for example, the group—will suffice. That is what is really meant by a “God of your understanding”. Bill W. later wrote that he was glad that they did not specify a particular “God”, because it would have excluded Buddhists who did not believe in God, and who were entering the program. You can sit easy on that one. You don’t need to subscribe to any religious view. In any group, various people are likely to hold—and articulate—different views. You don’t need to buy into any one person’s understanding, and can find (and change if need be) your own understanding of HP. Find a sponsor who will honor your choices. Sometimes, you may need to change groups—but I suspect that is usually not necessary.
  5. Standard memberchaney3
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    17 Aug '15 22:04
    Originally posted by vistesd
    Actually, chaney, AA “doctrine” does not say that. The language available to the founders (and in the Big Book) was what they had available to them, and is culture-bound. But any “power greater than yourself” (that’s is, your small ego-self)—for example, the group—will suffice. That is what is really meant by a “God of your understanding”. Bill W. later ...[text shortened]... choices. Sometimes, you may need to change groups—but I suspect that is usually not necessary.
    Vistesd, you are mistaken. All you need to do is read the 12 steps of AA, to clearly see that God MUST be involved with recovery.

    The 'higher power' issue is just a front.....a quaint lie. I have shared that my friend in AA chose the OCEAN as a higher power, and failed. The higher power issue falls badly when introduced to the 12 steps of AA.

    Please read the 12 steps, then reply. You seem a qualified opponent, and I am not eager to do battle with you. But, on this front, I am correct. God is most required in one's recovery.
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    17 Aug '15 22:091 edit
    Originally posted by chaney3
    Does anyone believe that God answers prayers?
    More or less half of the members here are Christian; what do you think they will answer? The rest are predominantly atheist; what do you think they will answer?
  7. Standard memberchaney3
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    17 Aug '15 22:12
    Originally posted by divegeester
    More or less half of the members here are Christian; what do you think they will answer? The rest are predominantly atheist; what do you think they will answer?
    Atheists of course will answer that God has NOT answered a prayer, because they do not make the effort to pray to a God they do not believe in.

    Christians.......just because one is a Christian does not mean that they have any proof at all that God has answered a prayer that they made.

    The question is the same for you dive.....has God ever answered a prayer of yours?
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    17 Aug '15 22:17
    Originally posted by chaney3
    Christians.......just because one is a Christian does not mean that they have any proof at all that God has answered a prayer that they made.
    You didn't ask if they had proof, you asked if anyone here believed that God answered prayer. As they are Christians, and prayer is a big part of the Christian ethos, I think it's fairly safe to assume they would respond in the affirmative.
  9. Standard memberchaney3
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    17 Aug '15 22:20
    Originally posted by divegeester
    You didn't ask if they had proof, you asked if anyone here believed that God answered prayer. As they are Christians, and prayer is a big part of the Christian ethos, I think it's fairly safe to assume they would respond in the affirmative.
    I don't agree dive. Praying to God is one thing, getting an answer is quite another. Are you assuming that merely being a Christian means that all of your prayers get answered? I don't think you are saying that.

    Just being a Christian, does not mean that your prayer will be answered by God.
  10. Standard memberKellyJay
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    17 Aug '15 22:28
    Originally posted by chaney3
    Thanks KellyJay. To be curious, has God answered your prayers in any way?

    No personal details, of course, but......He has answered you?
    Yes, but like I said not always the way I was asking for.
  11. Standard memberRajk999
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    17 Aug '15 22:30
    Originally posted by chaney3
    I have previously admitted that I was involved with Alcoholics Anonymous.

    AA's doctrine (not mine), says that ONLY God can help an alcoholic, and that if the alcoholic just asks God for help, then God will help them.

    Really?

    Does anyone believe that God answers prayers? And, that God will involve Himself in a persons life upon request? I do not.
    ...[text shortened]... fail.

    Basically, does anyone believe without a doubt, that God actually answers our prayers?
    The Bible says:

    1 Pet 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

    Unfortunately I have no personal experience to report on this issue.
  12. Standard memberchaney3
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    17 Aug '15 22:39
    I only bring up the AA issue, because in AA, God must answer the alcoholic who is asking for help. God could ignore raped children, murdered pastors, innocent car accident victims, but..........God must answer the prayer of a drunk. It does NOT make sense.

    This is NOT a doctrine of chaney3, this is AA. I believe it is harmful, because unlike most Christians, who would hope God replies to prayer, in AA, God must reply, or doom follows.
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    17 Aug '15 22:54
    Originally posted by chaney3
    I only bring up the AA issue, because in AA, God must answer the alcoholic who is asking for help. God could ignore raped children, murdered pastors, innocent car accident victims, but..........God must answer the prayer of a drunk. It does NOT make sense.

    This is NOT a doctrine of chaney3, this is AA. I believe it is harmful, because unlike most Christians, who would hope God replies to prayer, in AA, God must reply, or doom follows.
    I would not assume because God has delayed judgment that He is ignoring all the things
    you have talked about. Evil done in this world is typically done by us, to ourselves, and
    God has given us the ability to do good and bad. I tend to think God is treating evil like an
    American Admiral talked about issues, don't rock the boat, but when the time comes
    capsize it. So when God does judge evil for what it is and all those that practice it, it will
    end forever.
  14. Standard memberchaney3
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    17 Aug '15 22:59
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I would not assume because God has delayed judgment that He is ignoring all the things
    you have talked about. Evil done in this world is typically done by us, to ourselves, and
    God has given us the ability to do good and bad. I tend to think God is treating evil like an
    American Admiral talked about issues, don't rock the boat, but when the time comes
    c ...[text shortened]... So when God does judge evil for what it is and all those that practice it, it will
    end forever.
    I am not entirely sure what you mean. My bad.

    However, I will say this. That I currently believe that once Jesus died on the cross for our sins, that ALL of humanity has been saved. Regardless of one's beliefs.

    Atheists, JW's, Christians, Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, etc., ALL go to heaven. Jesus did the 'deed'. We are all saved.
  15. Standard memberKellyJay
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    17 Aug '15 23:24
    Originally posted by chaney3
    I am not entirely sure what you mean. My bad.

    However, I will say this. That I currently believe that once Jesus died on the cross for our sins, that ALL of humanity has been saved. Regardless of one's beliefs.

    Atheists, JW's, Christians, Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, etc., ALL go to heaven. Jesus did the 'deed'. We are all saved.
    Well there are some here that agree with that, I'm not one of them.
    I believed He did die for us all, but it is up to us to accept or reject Him, and answer the
    High calling He has for us all. Since He did die for all, even those that have done or are
    doing the very evil things you talked about can also if they turn to God be saved. Sadly
    those that have had bad things done to them, can reject Him as well.
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