Does God Believe in Atheists?

Originally posted by jaywill
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Do you derive pleasure from your incessant and slavish biblical quotation, or is it a burden your willing bear for the greater glory of God?
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Fair question which I will try to answer for you.

From my own personal experience when an argumentative, doubting, fault finding scussion quotations from the word of God. I can't say it better than the Bible says it.[/b]

Well, that's enlightening.

Personally, I find your biblical quotation wearing and tangential. But maybe by dint of repetition you can hammer away at recalcitant souls other than mine.

I think, however, you don't belong in a debates forum. What you need is a witnessing forum. This is becayse you primarily wish to declare, not debate. You don't believe that the truth about religion is arrived by exercising reason, but by receiving revelation. Good luck to you. The question is, however, how you know that revelation is reliable, or whether your subjective sense of its reliability is just an artifact of your conviction.

Originally posted by jaywill
I have considered the subject of believing that there is no God in the Bible itself.

I can see much indication that God believes that atheists exists. Can any Bible student give me a reason to believe that God believes in Athiests?

God loves all and all have a chance in their time on earth to accept Christ. Even the atheist

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God loves all and all have a chance in their time on earth to accept Christ. Even the atheist
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Amen to that.

I didn't say that God did not love atheists. I posed a question as to whether God believes that anyone truly does not believe that God exists.

Either way, He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Of course "God so loved the world ...".

Originally posted by jaywill
I posed a question as to whether God believes that anyone truly does not believe that God exists.

Surely that was a rather stupid question to ask. God is almost by definition omniscient. He therefore does not have beliefs. He must know everything or not exist.
As for whether he knows that atheists truly exist then he either does know about me or he doesn't exist (or is not omniscient).

But what you really wanted to say was that you do not believe that atheists exist, but since you are not omniscient you thought you would check with God and see if he could let you in on the secret. But since you have not had much luck communicating with God on the subject you thought you would ask us if we knew what God knows.

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Surely that was a rather stupid question to ask.

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Yep. It was a poor question to ask.

Just making conversation. There are lots of dumb topics up here.

Anyway, I don't expect atheists to admit that they are suppressing a deep seated and resented notion that maybe there is a God.

They "hold down the truth in unrighteousness" according to Romans.

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But maybe by dint of repetition you can hammer away at recalcitant souls other than mine.
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That's right.

And on the other hand the hardened become more hardened. So they are not lukewarm but good and cold.

You know God desires that we be hot or cold and not lukewarm.

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I think, however, you don't belong in a debates forum. What you need is a witnessing forum. This is becayse you primarily wish to declare, not debate.

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I do a little bit of both.



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You don't believe that the truth about religion is arrived by exercising reason, but by receiving revelation.
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No I believe that both are involved.

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Good luck to you.
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I don't need "luck." Thanks anyway.

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The question is, however, how you know that revelation is reliable, or whether your subjective sense of its reliability is just an artifact of your conviction.
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Here's a point we can debate about.

It seems from the record of faith on earth, as I read the Bible, that God always reserves a little room for you to be able to say "But what if it isn't true?"

It seems that there is always a way out if you want it. There seems always a little back door of "Well, MAYBE it is not God after all."

Now, why God does things this way, I am not sure. But if you read for example, His dealings with Israel in bringing them out of Egypt and through the wilderness and into the land of Canaan, there was never a place where they could not have some amount of doubt.

In frustration they once said "Is the Lord with us or not?"

Here is what I think. In the process of God working Himself into people He uses this way. Afterall, God's plan is not simply that we believe something about Him. It is that He Himself would live within us in a united and blended way.

So in the process of God dispensing His Spirit into man through man's faith He always leaves some room for a little doubt.

My goodness. Even Jesus the Son of God said "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me?"

What I have noticed over the years is that though there is always room for some doubt, little by little He does conform people more and more to the image of Christ. They become more like Jesus.

So the needy dad cried out to Jesus "I believe. Help my unbelief!"

Now let me ask you a question. Isn't it true that eventually, you are going to put your trust in somebody ?

Originally posted by jaywill
Anyway, I don't expect atheists to admit that they are suppressing a deep seated and resented notion that maybe there is a God.

They [b]"hold down the truth in unrighteousness" according to Romans.[/b]

But do you honestly believe that all of us atheists have such a "deep seated and resented notion that maybe there is a God"? Don't you think that it is more likely that you have a deep seated and resented notion that maybe there isn't and that atheists may be right? Why is it important to you that atheists believe there is a God?
Considering the wide variety of weird and outrageous beliefs that people hold you would be rather naive to believe that everyone in the world today believes in your God. And what about members of other religions such as those that believe in multiple gods (Hindus for example). Do you think that they also have a deep seated and resented notion that maybe your God exists?
I am convinced that a large proportion of theists are insecure in their beliefs but for me to claim that all theists are would be simply naive of me.

Has anyone visited the virtual office of William Lane Craig to read the
several public university debates he had with world famous athiests?

Which was your favorite? Anybody?


See the virtual office of William Lane Craig.

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/menus/debates.htm

Originally posted by jaywill
Has anyone visited the virtual office of William Lane Craig to read the
several public university debates he had with world famous athiests?

The URL doesn't work.

I hope you are keeping in mind that atheists are not a group of people but merely the set of people who believe in one less god than you.

If you're interested do a search on William Lane Craig. You'll find his list of debates if you surf for it.

This link works for me:

High powered university debates between Dr. Craig and world class atheists.

Knock yourselves out.

www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig

Originally posted by jaywill
If you're interested ....

Are these debates relevant to the discussion (eg do his opponents admit a belief in God) if so please explain or is it just something you think we will find interesting?

If you want to read some interesting debates between a highly educated theist and some highly educated and eloquent athiests, you might spend some time there.

I just looked at the Craig / Atkins debate and they were talking about the cause of the universe - whether or not God is required.


But for me If I did want to hear some well argued atheist's positions, this is a good site to read some. IMO. I don't always agree obviously, probably with either side completely. But they are good "professional" debates.

I started years ago reading these with the Craig / Washington debate at Boston University.

I am finished with this discussion.

I have little else to say about it. And it was not the greatest idea to begin with.