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Now some of us are excited about going to Mars.
And some of us are excited about going to Heaven.
But we need transformation into the image of Christ.
If you go to Heaven without transformation, you will take your problem to Heaven.
For one God won't have that.
A change in the outward environment will not be a salvation to you if you need sanctification and transformation and conformation into the image of Christ.
Same applies with people going to Mars.
We may be justifiably excited by being ABLE to go to Mars.
But once there it will be quickly grasped that man has just taken his problems to another place.
But being built up into the habitation of God in spirit is salvation indeed.
We who are saved and who will be saved are not really going to the New Jerusalem.
Rather we are becoming the New Jerusalem.
Consider Noah.
Noah and his family were rescued by the ark. They BUILT the ark. They were saved by what they BUILT.
This should be a lesson to Christians. We will be saved by what we BUILD. That is what we BUILD up in Christ and in the love of the Body of Christ.
The next post will prove that rather than the saved GOING to the New Jerusalem they are becoming the New Jerusalem. Rather I will show that salvation consists of being built up INTO the New Jerusalem.
Scrutinize, but in the Holy Spirit.
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The church in Brotherly Love has a little power.
" .. because you have a little power and have kept My word and have not denied My name." (Rev. 3:8c)
They are not spiritual giants.
They do not have that much spiritual power in themselves.
They have just a little power.
But they do have love for the brotherhood. The name Philadelphia suggest so.
They have a little power but they have not denied the Lord's name - meaning the Person of the Lord Himself.
These are rewarded with being ORGANICALLY built INTO the city of God. Watch -
"He who overcomes, him I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall by no means go out anymore, and I will write upon him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which descends out of heaven from My God ...and My new name. " (Rev. 3:12)
To be made a pillar in the temple of God is a matter of life.
This means that "organically" the believer is SO built into the living house of God he will drift out individually no longer.
The living person becomes a living pillar in the living temple.
And the living God writes the name of New Jerusalem on him meaning that he thoroughly is built into that eternal corporate entity.
God the saints in brotherly love for one another into His temple His living "habitation of God in spirit". They are possessed thoroughly by New Jerusalem the astounding city seen as the climax of history in the close of the Bible.
So the saved are not going to heaven to live forever. While you may want to go to heaven, New Jerusalem will be coming DOWN out of Heaven from God. Christ is there. You don't want to be in Heaven and Christ is with the city of God coming down to earth out of heaven.
" ... and I will write upon him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which descends out of heaven from My God, ..."
Originally posted by sonshipYou really need to read 1 John 3:4-10 as a whole and in context. You've made it clear that you don't understand what the writer is saying.
Please note. The sin overcoming life is not our life by natural birth. It is the divine seed implanted in the one who receives Christ. His life is Him. And He overcomes the world and sin. He destroys the awful works of the Devil.
His life.
His SEED.
Him - Jesus Himself in a form in which He can come INTO people.
[quote] [b] "Everyone who has been be ...[text shortened]... the current of Himself through an love united Body.
Here is the greater and greater victory.
The point is that "no one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
The point is that "no one who is born of God will continue to sin".
Everything else serves to reinforce those points.
Here it is again:
1 John 3
4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.
6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
8The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.
9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOnehow are you going to explain this? 1 John 2:1
You really need to read 1 John 3:4-10 as a whole and in context. You've made it clear that you don't understand what the writer is saying.
The point is that "no one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
The point is that "no one who is born of God will continue to sin"
Here it is agai ...[text shortened]... t do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ.
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Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYou really need to read 1 John 3:4-10 as a whole and in context.
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I do.
You've made it clear that you don't understand what the writer is saying.
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I understand much of what John is saying by personal and corporate experience.
My comments will be related as much as possible to the OP.
We've had this debate before years ago.
The point is that "no one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."
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Though John speaks often in such absolute terms he is still talking about a PROCESS. On one hand he says a Christian hating his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness.
" He who says he is in the light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. " 2:9)
Yet a PROCESS of coming into the light is in play also to the one growing in the divine life.
" Yet again a new commandment I am writing to you, which is true in Him and in you because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shinning." (2:8)
This indicates that coming out of the darkness of discord, suspicion and even hatred of the Christian brother, if spiritual growth and building are normally occurring reveals the PROCESS of the true light shinning.
By the same token escaping from sinning is under the same process of God dispensing more and more Christ into the brothers.
"Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.( 3:4)
Through the PROCESS of God's salvation the believers are growing out of lawlessness and sinning. This has to be the reason why John addresses his audience in terms of different levels of maturity.
" I write to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you because of His name. I write to you, fathers, because you know Him who is from the beginning. I write to you young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you young children, because you know the Father." (2:12,13)
In the process of divine life's growing and divine life building the saints up together there is a spiritual family life. And as in a natural family, there are varied LEVELS of maturity. Subsequently there are different levels of those being delivered from sinning, keeping Christ's commandments, loving, walking in the light, and supplying practical material help to other members in need.
The point here is that "young children, young men, and fathers" manifests growth in salvation. Though John does speak in absolute terms he is talking about the increase, expansion, and growth of God's life in the believers.
This is quite consistent with him saying that Christ in them is a "SEED".
"Everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God." (1 John 3:9)
The planting of the seed in regeneration may be instantaneous.
But the growth and development of the divine life issuing from the divine seed is a matter of PROCESS. Along the way there are different levels of maturity - young children, young men, fathers.
Love is growing. Keeping of Christ's commandments is growing and deepening.
Building up together in love is growing. And being saved from sinning and the influence of the world is deepening and growing. The darkness is PASSING away.
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The point is that "no one who is born of God will continue to sin".
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That is true. But it is a PROCESS of the growth of the divine "seed" he speaks of.
We know that the final destiny will be to make the believers the same as Christ (3::2). It is not yet manifested what the full development of the seed will reveal.
"Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been manifested what we will be. We know that if He is manifested, we will be like Him because we will see Him even as He is." (3:2)
If John meant that there is a binary situation where Christians are either like Christ or not like Christ it would be manifested in the church age that we are totally like Him. As it stands Christians should blossom just as a growing seed of a carnation plant. There is a growth and a climax process to be cooperated with.
There is even a process of Christ destroying the works of the devil in the believers who are in cooperation with Christ.
"For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he mght destroy the works of the devil." ( 3:8b)
As Christ grows within the believer, He progresses to destroy more and more the works of the devil. As the Christians are built up together in love the seed of life grows and the devil's influence in them is destroyed for the building up of the church.
Everything else serves to reinforce those points.
Here it is again:
1 John 3
4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
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I think the Recovery Version translates this better.
"Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness." (v.4)
Regardless, what is meant is that by degrees in deeper and deeper levels of God's life penetrating into the souls of the believers the transformation is taking place. This transformation is greatly enhanced in the oneness of love between the brothers. For God's goal is a corporate one.
In fact John goes so far to say that the love of the brothers is the evidence that the believers have passed out of death into divine and eternal life.
"We know that we have passed out of death into life because we love the brothers. He who does not love abides in death." (3:14)
I was scolded for not mentioning the WHAT to do very much in the Christian walk. In this section John is very clear that this divine love is manifested also in practically supplying to the brothers what they may need to live.
"But whoever has the livelihood of the world and sees that his brother has need and shuts up his affections from him, how does the love of God abide in him?
Little children, let us not love in word nor in tongue but in deed and truthfulness." (3:17,18)
The context shows he is talking mainly about material support in the brotherhood of the Christian church life. I would not say it is exclusively so perhaps. But it certainly is mainly so by the context.
5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.
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Forgiveness of sins is instantaneous. Overcoming sinning is by process.
Even becoming conscious of some sins is a process.
Even becoming aware that something is no longer acceptable to the Christian conscience is a matter of growth in spiritual life.
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Originally posted by FMFSalvation of the human spirit is instantaneous.
Is the keeping of Christ's commandments a prerequisite for "salvation"?
Salvation of the human soul is a process of transformation.
Salvation of the physical body is also spontaneous - "in the twinkling of an eye."
Obeying the commandments of Christ which are too many to enumerate, is mostly related to the salvation of the soul. The answer then is Yes, mostly in relationship to the transformation (salvation) of the soul.
This is also called sanctification.
This verse shows us that there are three parts to man all of which need a salvation for a total salvation of the whole being.
"And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thess. 5:23)
The salvation of the human spirit occurs in regeneration.
The salvation of the soul occurs in transformation.
The salvation of the body occurs in transfiguration.
Transfiguration is also called "the redemption of the body".
Once again, for the salvation of the soul in transformation the obeying of Christ's many spontaneous and intimate commandments is crucial. If you do not obey the Lord Jesus within you you will postpone your transformation, you will procrastinate on your salvation of your soul.
You cannot procrastinate forever. God has a way to give every Christian the incentive to want to cooperate with this salvation of the soul. He has not only this church age to do so. He has the millennial kingdom age to work upon those who have put off this transformation through disobedience.
The salvation of the soul through obedience will result in the believer being like Christ.
Jesus said that this is to find your soul.
28 Apr 17
Originally posted by sonshipSo a believer in Christ with "faith" who, nevertheless, procrastinates, who is not a spontaneous doer of good works, and who does not obey Jesus' commandments will be consigned to "damnation" and forego "salvation", is that right?
Once again, for the salvation of the soul in [b]transformation the obeying of Christ's many spontaneous and intimate commandments is crucial. If you do not obey the Lord Jesus within you you will postpone your transformation, you will procrastinate on your salvation of your soul.[/b]
28 Apr 17
Originally posted by sonshipSo people who do believe in Christ can, regardless, in your view, end up in a state of eternal torment in "Hell" despite their belief and their "faith", is that right?
The salvation of the soul through obedience will result in the believer being like Christ.
Jesus said that this is to find your soul.
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Originally posted by FMFRead the book "The Judgment Seat of Christ" by D.M. Panton (1924 - 1955)
So a believer in Christ with "faith" who, nevertheless, procrastinates, who is not a spontaneous doer of good works, and who does not obey Jesus' commandments will be consigned to "damnation" and forego "salvation", is that right?
Its only 79 pages.
You can get a copy for a handsome minimal price from
Schoettle Publishing Co. inc.
P.O. Box 1246
Hayesville, NC 28904
Or look online.
I highly recommend it on the subject of the reward and discipline of those saved in eternal redemption. Now you asked and I gave you a good resource. If you really are interested, you should obtain that book and read it.
28 Apr 17
Originally posted by sonshipI'm asking you.
Read the book [b]"The Judgment Seat of Christ" by D.M. Panton (1924 - 1955)
Its only 79 pages.
You can get a copy for a handsome minimal price from
Schoettle Publishing Co. inc.
P.O. Box 1246
Hayesville, NC 28904
Or look online.
I highly recommend it on the subject of the reward and discipline of those saved in eternal redempti ...[text shortened]... gave you a good resource. If you really are interested, you should obtain that book and read it.[/b]
Originally posted by sonshipYou are an insult to Jesus Christ who must be laughing a your nonsense. Imagine, a professed follower of Christ goes about recommending books and authors of all types but NEVER EVER have you once recommended the teachings of Christ for anyone to read. You in fact do the opposite and tell people that Christ teachings and doctrine do not apply, or are works oriented or are too many. Shameless.
Read the book [b]"The Judgment Seat of Christ" by D.M. Panton (1924 - 1955)
Its only 79 pages.
You can get a copy for a handsome minimal price from
Schoettle Publishing Co. inc.
P.O. Box 1246
Hayesville, NC 28904
Or look online.
I highly recommend it on the subject of the reward and discipline of those saved in eternal redempti ...[text shortened]... gave you a good resource. If you really are interested, you should obtain that book and read it.[/b]
28 Apr 17
Originally posted by robbie carrobie1 John 3
how are you going to explain this? 1 John 2:1
My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not commit a sin. And yet, [b]if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ.[/b]
6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
There isn't much to explain.
The writer is aware that there may be individuals in his audience who may continue to sin.
According to the above, such individuals have neither seen him or known him.
According to the above, such individuals have yet have been born of God.