Originally posted by divegeesterSo which is it Dive. Im not a Christian or Im not a sincere Christian.
Nothing, actually. I'm commenting on what is demonstrated.
My issue with him in a nutshell, is that I don't believe he is a Christian. I can't prove it of course, but I know. He's dishonest about that and I'm just calling him on it. I fully expect him, yourself and others slap me, and that's ok.
To be clear, although I disagree with him in some p ...[text shortened]... ou or others but I find it interesting why he feels he needs to pretend to be one (as ToO) does.
Why would a man waste so much time over the last 12 years, saying the same things over and over about the teachings of Christ, supporting the preaching of the teachings of Christ, the way Jesus preached it... if that man did not have a horse in the race. Why would I take all the ridicule of other Christians for so long if there was not something driving me to do it. You are the first to say that what I am saying is making you think. For me that is the only comment in the last 12 years that tells me that someone is listening.
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Originally posted by Rajk999Your response to Dive in your last few posts has been refreshing, and dare i say admirably Christian.
So which is it Dive. Im not a Christian or Im not a sincere Christian.
Why would a man waste so much time over the last 12 years, saying the same things over and over about the teachings of Christ, supporting the preaching of the teachings of Christ, the way Jesus preached it... if that man did not have a horse in the race. Why would I take all the ridi ...[text shortened]... k. For me that is the only comment in the last 12 years that tells me that someone is listening.
Dive's direct speaking is also something to be saluted.
(And yes, i'm aware that complimenting both Dive and yourself in one post is forum thumb suicide).
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeThanks. Forum thumb suicide !! 😀 Dive will get a lot of flak from his fellow Christians as well..
Your response to Dive in your last few posts has been refreshing, and dare i say admirably Christian.
Dive's direct speaking is also something to be saluted.
(And yes, i'm aware that complimenting both Dive and yourself in one post is forum thumb suicide).
Funny how the only support I got [until now] is from atheists, like yourself, FMF, ThinkofOne [not sure if he is a Christian], Karoly. Brings me to another point, [who cares about support] the teachings of Jesus Christ are universal and is supposed to be already embedded in the hearts of all men. Why is it so difficult to accept that an atheist / someone without law, can follow Christ, something the Bible says as well.
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29 Apr 17
Originally posted by Rajk999Agreed (although FMF is not an atheist).
Thanks. Forum thumb suicide !! 😀 Dive will get a lot of flak from his fellow Christians as well..
Funny how the only support I got [until now] is from atheists, like yourself, FMF, ThinkofOne [not sure if he is a Christian], Karoly. Brings me to another point, [who cares about support] the teachings of Jesus Christ are universal and is supposed to be a ...[text shortened]... cept that an atheist / someone without law, can follow Christ, something the Bible says as well.
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Returning to the subject of realizing you need a spiritual companion -
As one who has believed into Jesus Christ, it is so good to pray from the onset to the Father, that you know that you cannot make it alone without other members of His mystical Body.
It is so good to learn sooner rather than latter, that you need the Lord Himself. And you need the Lord in His Body. You need the vertical relationship with Christ in the heavens. And you need the horizontal relationship with Christ in the other believers.
Here is it a matter of coming together with one or two or more other Christians in a profitable way. That is not in a time wasting way (spiritually). But be gathered into His name with His presence.
" Again, truly I say to you that if two of you are in harmony on earth concerning any matter for which they ask, it will be done for them from My Father who is in the heavens.
For where there are two or three gathered into My name, there I am in their midst." (Matt. 18:19,20)
cont. below
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29 Apr 17
The above verse is tempting to take in a frivolous manner by the foolish.
IE. "Oh, so if we two Christians agree that I should have a Mercedes Bends tomorrow, the Father will give me it. For Jesus said just be in harmony and ask."
It is not a cheap matter to be together in His name.
Two Christians coming together in the name of their greedy covetousness for material things is not what is meant here.
Together in His name is not a cheap thing. But it is a matter in which He, has the Headship. And the asking has to come out of His will. But to come together to seek first His kingdom and to petition concerning things touching His kingdom, that is powerful.
But my point here is not so much on the power of petition. Rather it is in the strength of companionship in His name, focused on Him, gathering unto Christ, gathering with hearts turned towards Christ.
it is not just adding Christian A to Christians B and C for any old purpose.
We Christians have to learn how to gather together in small groups REALLY in His Person and in His name. We must have His presence and be under His Headship.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeI have been thinking this over in recent months and I reckon I might perhaps get better self-encapsulation mileage out of the word agnostic.
Agreed (although FMF is not an atheist).
I had my reasons for not surrendering the term "theist" to rote-learner retail religionists but I can scarcely recall what they were. googlefudge had an interesting list of multi-word terms that tracked the gradations from theist to atheist. I should perhaps look at that again.
As for my former Christianity, the huge nails being hammered into its coffin - by the mostly repellent self-proclaimed Christians here - are redundant nails (albeit interesting) as the necessary faith was gone and lost before I started posting regularly on this forum.
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Originally posted by Rajk999It is quite acceptable for one Christian the judge the sincerity of another; I'm not sure where this idea comes from that Christians are supposed to be accepting of other people claiming to be Christians when clearly to them, they are not. To me, in my perception, you are not a Christian. However I accept that you like to have this one piece of technically correct scripture about salvation depending on works.
This is all Im interested in : [b].. he makes a good job of it and it has made me think about what I believe to a point. . My sincerity as a Christian, Christ will judge.
In no way am I likening myself to Paul, but many Christians and Jews and Gentiles did not initially accept what Paul was preaching because they knew his history. The a ...[text shortened]... it is then I am happy. My personal failings should not influence you accepting what Christ said.[/b]
Your single focused insistence on this is interesting in itself, your refusal to discuss the practical outworkings of this is interesting and revealling and your rejection of the swathes of scripture discussing salvation being through faith and not works confirms to me that you are not a Christian. Your motivation for claiming to be one is that if you didn't, then none of the Christians here would give you credence or spend time arguing with you. As a non-Christian presenting your case you have no traction, no skin in the game and therefore your presence here, being the one tick pony that your posting is, is moot.
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Originally posted by Rajk999See my post above.
So which is it Dive. Im not a Christian or Im not a sincere Christian.
Why would a man waste so much time over the last 12 years, saying the same things over and over about the teachings of Christ, supporting the preaching of the teachings of Christ, the way Jesus preached it... if that man did not have a horse in the race. Why would I take all the ridi ...[text shortened]... k. For me that is the only comment in the last 12 years that tells me that someone is listening.
Your posting does make me think. So does a lot of the other posters write here make me think about scripture, about what I believe and why. Don't be carried away with that.
Why would you be wasting your time here if you are not a Christian, 50% of the posters here are not Christian. You only go over one element of the "teaching of Christ". You never take the gospel in its entirety, you never (as far as I can remember) extrapolate from the OT, you are a one trick pony with an axe to grind and you grind it. It's fine, I'm not criticising you for it, I'm just pointing out my observation of you and what I perceive as being your motivation.
I find your points of legal scriptural technicality interesting and the scripture challenges me about how i live my life, does it challenge you? Oh of course, you don't want to talk about that do you. You don't want to talk about how Christ has delivered you, how he lives in you, how his mercies to you are new every day, how you are forgiven, how you are living in no condemnation, how the free gift of eternal life flows through you and enriches you and those around you. That's fine. I'm just pointing it out. I'm just letting you know that I know, that's all. I know you are not a Christian.
Please keep posting, please keep challenging me to live a good life; your technical knowledge of that one element of gospel is excellent.
Originally posted by divegeester to Rajk999Your single focused insistence on this is interesting in itself, your refusal to discuss the practical outworkings of this is interesting and revealling and your rejection of the swathes of scripture discussing salvation being through faith and not works confirms to me that you are not a Christian. Your motivation for claiming to be one is that if you didn't, then none of the Christians here would give you credence or spend time arguing with you. As a non-Christian presenting your case you have no traction, no skin in the game and therefore your presence he, being the one tick pony that your posting is, is moot.
This kind of analysis has all been aimed at you too ~ the accusation that you are not really a Christian ~ while in your case, your single minded focus/insistence is about most of the Christians here getting the nature of divine justice and punishment wrong.
If I then said this to you...
Your motivation for claiming to be one is that if you didn't, then none of the Christians here would give you credence or spend time arguing with you. As a non-Christian presenting your case you have no traction, no skin in the game and therefore your presence he, being the one tick pony that your posting is, is moot...
...how would you respond to analysis such as this?
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30 Apr 17
Originally posted by Rajk999Interesting. It is certainly not funny (strange) that the only support you get is form non Christians. The demonstration of Christ living through the claimed Christians in this forum is virtually non-existent. I in particular am no example of Christ whatsoever.
Funny how the only support I got [until now] is from atheists, like yourself, FMF, ThinkofOne [not sure if he is a Christian], Karoly. Brings me to another point, [who cares about support] the teachings of Jesus Christ are universal and is supposed to be already embedded in the hearts of all men. Why is it so difficult to accept that an atheist / someone without law, can follow Christ, something the Bible says as well.
Many Christians live a desert life, like I do, or they feed on the carcasses, the decaying carrion of the bygone dispensations of grace. It is not easy and is actually an incoherency to be clothed in your own filthy rags and yet claim to be a child of a king. Christians have made ourselves easy targets for people like yourself, atheists, the spiritually disenfranchised, because we don't live the life, because we don't follow the teachings of Christ, because we have wondered from the narrow way.
You are a help, you quote scripture and challenge. But your ministry is dead, you offer no hope, no grace no peace, no direction and no love. You are a clanging gong with one note.
I am a piece of dirt, a worthless individual sinner and without help in the world. But I will stand here in this forum and proclaim Jesus Christ as my Lord and saviour and through the faith he has provided and his mercy and grace I am saved. Perhaps you have another route, another gospel, I'm interested in both the technicalities of it AND how you live it.
Thanks.
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Originally posted by FMFFirstly I acknowledge my place in this forum; see my post above.
[b]Your single focused insistence on this is interesting in itself, your refusal to discuss the practical outworkings of this is interesting and revealling and your rejection of the swathes of scripture discussing salvation being through faith and not works confirms to me that you are not a Christian. Your motivation for claiming to be one is that if you didn't ...[text shortened]... pony that your posting is, is moot[/i]...
...how would you respond to analysis such as this?
Secondly I will discuss a variety of scriptural doctrines, biblical components and reveal myself and discuss the principles and practicalities of Christian living.
Wether or not someone else thinks I'm not a Christian is their business, but I will engage with anyone here (who is genuine and not trolling) about my faith, I will discuss the outworking of it, the struggles and the failures. I will be open and honest about how Christianity impacts me every day. I'm happy to do that because my experience will, in essence, be the same as everyone else's. Struggle, failure, hope, forgiveness, restoration, security in Christ, etc.
Rajk999 will not do this becused he has nothing to give, no hope, no experiences about how his teaching here is applied in his life, how it works, his failures. He cannot, because he doesn't speak the gospel he speaks part of it. One part only, one axe that he grinds.
His strength is that he knows his scriptures, and scripture will always reach a Christian, his weakness is that in his real life, he's a fake.
30 Apr 17
Originally posted by divegeester to Rajk999This is quite a charge sheet for someone having a message that is 'follow the commands of Christ, just like the Bible says'.
But your ministry is dead, you offer no hope, no grace no peace, no direction and no love. You are a clanging gong with one note.
...[I] don't follow the teachings of Christ, because we [I] wondered from the narrow way. [...] I am a piece of dirt, a worthless individual sinner and without help in the world. But I will stand here in this forum and proclaim Jesus Christ as my Lord and saviour and through the faith he has provided and his mercy and grace I am saved.
So, perhaps this is why Rajk999's more demanding interpretation of what the Bible teaches is less appealing to you than, say, sonships'?
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Originally posted by FMFThe scriptural pieces that Rajk presents are of way more interest and appeal to me than what sonship writes about. I don't read most of sonship's posts, I find his ministry dull, largely incomprehensible, sometimes morally ridiculous and generally way off track; and as you know I've called him on it hundreds of times. In fact I'm still awaiting a response from him in that other thread, I've not been in there this morning so perhaps he has.
This is quite a charge sheet for someone having a message that is 'follow the commands of Christ, just like the Bible says'.
[b] ...[I] don't follow the teachings of Christ, because we [I] wondered from the narrow way. [...] I am a piece of dirt, a worthless individual sinner and without help in the world. But I will stand here in this forum and proclaim Jesu ...[text shortened]... emanding interpretation of what the Bible teaches is less appealing to you than, say, sonships'?
You seem to intent on polarising your perspective of the Christian content of this forum between sonship and Rakj999. I don't see it like this, why do you?