07 Feb 06
I am an aethiest for many reasons and one is because the christian faith seems very unfair in ways one example is this.
You go to hell if you do not worship god, live by the bible and so on. What I find unfair is that there are people who when born get no choice in the heaven/hell afterlife. Say a child is born in the amazon rainforest to a tribe the person never knows anything of christianity never gets to make a choice in that sense, never rejects God, but never hears of God, never gets the choice to. Now assume there is a God and this person is sent to hell that seems just so unfair. I question if there is an all powerful God why would there be such bias to a matter as trivial as birthplace, there would of been nothing that child/person could of done in there life to stand a chance.
07 Feb 06
1 edit
Originally posted by Will EverittYou are wrong. People do no go to hell because they don't read the Bible and worship God.
I am an aethiest for many reasons and one is because the christian faith seems very unfair in ways one example is this.
You go to hell if you do not worship god, live by the bible and so on. What I find unfair is that there are people who when born get no choice in the heaven/hell afterlife. Say a child is born in the amazon rainforest to a tribe the ...[text shortened]... ce, there would of been nothing that child/person could of done in there life to stand a chance.
God looks at each person's unique situation. How can you read the Bible if you don't have one? How can you worship God if you've never heard of Him? Humans are spiritual beings and God will judge each of us by the amount of "light" (spiritual revelation) we have recieved.
07 Feb 06
Originally posted by HalitoseI tend to agree with you but do you know of any biblical basis for these assertions?
You are wrong. People do no go to hell because they don't read the Bible and worship God.
God looks at each person's unique situation. How can you read the Bible if you don't have one? How can you worship God if you've never heard of Him? Humans are spiritual beings and God will judge each of us by the amount of "light" (spiritual revelation) we have recieved.
TheSkipper
07 Feb 06
Originally posted by TheSkipperI didn't quite find the verses I was looking for, but I guess this will suffice...
I tend to agree with you but do you know of any biblical basis for these assertions?
TheSkipper
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
07 Feb 06
Originally posted by Will EverittI think every Christian has struggled with this question at one time or another. I am not going to pretend I have all the answers as to who will and will not be saved. You must ask yourself one question, however. What is fair? Was it fair to allow mankind to continue to live on once man had fallen and rebelled against God? Fairness has to do with perspective. From God's point of view, fairness was probably to wipe mankind off the face of the earth. From mankinds perspective fairness was probobly to get a second chance at redemption. Luckily for mankind, God is a God of love and is a just God. We got the second chance at redemption. All I can tell you is that God came in the flesh for our redemption. It is now up to his followers to spread the good news and reach all of mankind with the message. This was not just a suggestion but a command for his followers. Is it fair that his followers do not seriously heed the command to declare the good news to all the world? Probably not in the eyes of God but probably justified in the eyes of his followers who do not have the will for one reason or another to evangalize as they should. I include myself in this group. Hopefully God will be mercifull for my shortcomings and once again treat me as how I see "fairness" to be. Hopefully God can still continue to change me and use me despite my shortcomings and reach out to people like yourself who are searching and hurting.
I am an aethiest for many reasons and one is because the christian faith seems very unfair in ways one example is this.
You go to hell if you do not worship god, live by the bible and so on. What I find unfair is that there are people who when born get no choice in the heaven/hell afterlife. Say a child is born in the amazon rainforest to a tribe the ...[text shortened]... ce, there would of been nothing that child/person could of done in there life to stand a chance.
07 Feb 06
Originally posted by Will EverittI'm afraid your knowledge of God is a bit lacking.
I am an aethiest for many reasons and one is because the christian faith seems very unfair in ways one example is this.
You go to hell if you do not worship god, live by the bible and so on. What I find unfair is that there are people who when born get no choice in the heaven/hell afterlife. Say a child is born in the amazon rainforest to a tribe the ...[text shortened]... ce, there would of been nothing that child/person could of done in there life to stand a chance.
God bases our judgement upon our lives.
Luk 12:48 But he not knowing, and doing things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For to whomever much is given, of him much shall be required. And to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
If a person have never heard of Jesus, they will not be held to the same level of accountability as one that has.
I agree, if the amazon went to hell because he didn't believe in a man he never heard of, it would indeed be unfair.
DF
07 Feb 06
Originally posted by HalitoseIf you are right then I have to ask If I live a good life help others and comit nothing/little that I see as wrong but don't belive in God will I go to heaven? You have lead me to belive yes, yes I will and so at the end of the day I don't lose out by not beliving in God if there is one. If I am right I will decay in the ground when dead and think nothing more of it but shall of lived a good life not wasting(in my veiw) time spent lisening to someone preach lies when I could be doning something I enjoy/helping someone.
You are wrong. People do no go to hell because they don't read the Bible and worship God.
God looks at each person's unique situation. How can you read the Bible if you don't have one? How can you worship God if you've never heard of Him? Humans are spiritual beings and God will judge each of us by the amount of "light" (spiritual revelation) we have recieved.
Also is it fine with God if the amazonian man worships "false gods"?
Fear the Lord your God, worship Him, and take [your] oaths in His name.
Above all, fear the Lord and worship Him faithfully with all your heart
But whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into a furnace of blazing fire.
All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
07 Feb 06
I remember thinking that at some point, but it doesn't work that way. People who are never ever exposed to certain beliefs aren't held accountable to them. The Bible was written by and for and around people who had a concept of a god. Those who weren't Jewish or the later Christians still held religious beliefs. It was easy to understand the whole *follow our path or spend eternity in the smoking section* reasoning. Not a lot of relativist thinking in that neighborhood. Does that mean they were entirely accurate?
08 Feb 06
Originally posted by HalitoseHow refreshing! Leaves little to argue with, and little to fear. Recced.
You are wrong. People do no go to hell because they don't read the Bible and worship God.
God looks at each person's unique situation. How can you read the Bible if you don't have one? How can you worship God if you've never heard of Him? Humans are spiritual beings and God will judge each of us by the amount of "light" (spiritual revelation) we have recieved.
08 Feb 06
Originally posted by Will EverittHere's an interesting thought. What if there are three possible afterlife conditions? 1) Salvation in Heaven, 2) Condemnation in Hell, and 3) To sease to exist and decay with the flesh on earth.
If I am right I will decay in the ground when dead and think nothing more of it but shall of lived a good life not wasting(in my veiw) time spent lisening to someone preach lies when I could be doning something I enjoy/helping someone.
Non-believers (like myself) would sease to exist, and everything is fine. Yes, I'll go with that one. I'm not saying I believe that one, mind you. 🙂 That would be foolish of me. I don't believe anything, or I may find myself facing condition 2. Thus, I believe I will sease to exist. Doh!.. :
08 Feb 06
Originally posted by Will EverittOh boy.
I am an aethiest for many reasons and one is because the christian faith seems very unfair in ways one example is this.
You go to hell if you do not worship god, live by the bible and so on. What I find unfair is that there are people who when born get no choice in the heaven/hell afterlife. Say a child is born in the amazon rainforest to a tribe the ...[text shortened]... ce, there would of been nothing that child/person could of done in there life to stand a chance.
Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen once said:
There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church—which is, of course, quite a different thing. ... As a matter of fact, if we Catholics believed all of the untruths and lies which were said against the Church, we probably would hate the Church a thousand times more than they do.[1]
I suppose the same could be said of Christianity.
Anyhow, this is what the majority of the world's Christians officially believe about salvation:
Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God. In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh. On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues. But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, and as Saviour wills that all men be saved. Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life.[2]
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[1] http://fideidefensor.blogspot.com/2005/11/bishop-fulton-sheen.html
[2] Vatican II Fathers. Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (Lumen Gentium). n.16.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
08 Feb 06
I am not a Christian. Christianity does not make logical sense to me and I consider myself to be a fairly logical person. If the Christian God exists and sends me to hell for not believing in him then it would definately be unfair because it was he who made me with a logical mind, and never explained all the paradoxes and contradictions in the bible to me. However I have always believed that if a God exists then he would judge me fairly that he would judge me a better person than most people I know.
08 Feb 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou're a better person that most people you know? How reassuring. From what do you derive your system of right and wrong?
I am not a Christian. Christianity does not make logical sense to me and I consider myself to be a fairly logical person. If the Christian God exists and sends me to hell for not believing in him then it would definately be unfair because it was he who made me with a logical mind, and never explained all the paradoxes and contradictions in the bible to me ...[text shortened]... ts then he would judge me fairly that he would judge me a better person than most people I know.