1. Standard memberRajk999
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    Doubly unjust is the kind of God in which many Christians believe.

    Unjust 1 - Their God will burn and torment for all eternity anyone that does not believe in Christ or, did not hear about Christ, or never accepted Christ, as their saviour, even if that person may have lived lives full of love, charity, forgiveness, mercy and generosity towards others.

    Unjust 2 - Their God will reward with life in abundance for all eternity anyone who claims with their mouth that Christ is their saviour and completely ignores their sin however sick, vile and depraved that sin might be.

    None of these two doctrines is Biblical. Why do they believe in such foolishness?
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    06 Jul '15 00:43
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Doubly unjust is the kind of God in which many Christians believe.

    Unjust 1 - Their God will burn and torment for all eternity anyone that does not believe in Christ or, did not hear about Christ, or never accepted Christ, as their saviour, even if that person may have lived lives full of love, charity, forgiveness, mercy and generosity towards others.
    ...[text shortened]... might be.

    None of these two doctrines is Biblical. Why do they believe in such foolishness?
    Nice to know you believe in a God who is harsh to his own people (Christians, none of whom ignores their sin, as you claim they do, even though you know next to nothing about them... they call that pre-judging), while simultaneously saving those who refuse to accept him.

    Your God is pretty twisted. Oh, wait, that would be you, the one who thinks such a God is a reasonable thing to believe in.

    Funny, I don't recall Jesus Christ saying anything about "Assume the worst of your fellow Christians, and you won't be disappointed." However, I do recall him saying "Love your neighbor as yourself." And, for some reason, I don't think you assume the worst about yourself.
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    06 Jul '15 03:17
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Nice to know you believe in a God who is harsh to his own people (Christians, none of whom ignores their sin, as you claim they do, even though you know next to nothing about them... they call that pre-judging), while simultaneously saving those who refuse to accept him.

    Your God is pretty twisted. Oh, wait, that would be you, the o ...[text shortened]... neighbor as yourself." And, for some reason, I don't think you assume the worst about yourself.
    Do you think you personify "Love your neighbor as yourself" much yourself on this forum?
  4. Standard membersonship
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    07 Jul '15 10:112 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Unjust 1 - Their God will burn and torment for all eternity anyone that does not believe in Christ or, did not hear about Christ, or never accepted Christ, as their saviour, even if that person may have lived lives full of love, charity, forgiveness, mercy and generosity towards others.

    Three questions for you:

    1.) Some people want nothing to do with God forever. God has prepared a place for them. They will have their own place away, apart, and without God forever.

    It is righteous for God to inform us that He knows that such a place will not be good. It will not be the paradise that the unbeliever expects it will be.

    So in no uncertain terms God informs us beforehand that that dream we entertain of an existence away from God with out own sinful nature, will be a bad state.

    2.) Though we may not know all that God knows of the details of people's lives, we have enough data from the Bible to expect rejection and ignorance are probably not treated the same.

    3.) "By works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Rom. 3:20)

    Since by the works of the law no flesh will be justified all who are justified eternally before God can only come through Jesus Christ.

    Anyone who is able to read this Forum is probably not ignorant but refuses Christ out of unbelief and rejection. Whatever the situation of the unknowing that is probably not your situation.
  5. Standard membersonship
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    07 Jul '15 10:15

    Unjust 2 - Their God will reward with life in abundance for all eternity anyone who claims with their mouth that Christ is their saviour and completely ignores their sin however sick, vile and depraved that sin might be.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    More display of your ignorance from which you seem impossible to educate.

    The eternal age does not begin immediately following the second coming of Christ. There is an intervening 1,000 years before the age of eternity in the new heaven and new earth.

    As has been pointed out to you numerous times some are saved with reward and some are saved yet so as through fire, suffering loss of some reward. (1 Cor. 3:13-15) .

    God has enough time to mature His sons and correct and discipline for growth the ones deficient in being filled with His life and nature.


    None of these two doctrines is Biblical. Why do they believe in such foolishness?

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Both points were your caricatures designed to slander some believers who have a better understanding of the Scripture than you. And actually your slander misrepresented God heart and character also.

    I think you are unable to learn these things. I don't have the ability to correct your wrong ideas.
  6. Standard membersonship
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    07 Jul '15 10:15
    "A factious man, after the first and second admonition refuse, knowing that such a one is perverted and is sinning, though he is condemned by his own self." (Titus 3:10,11)


    I don't think you are just mistaken. I think you must be a factious man holding down the truth of the Word of God which has been plainly spoken to you. Such passages you continue to accuse of being "foolishness".

    This is not foolishness:

    "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.

    Not of works that no one should boast. " (Eph. 2:8,9)


    And this is not foolishness:

    "And knowing that a man is not justified out of works of law, but through faith in Jesus Christ, we also have believed into Christ Jesus that we might be justified out of faith in Christ and not out of the works of law, because out of the works of law no flesh will be justified." (Galatians 2:16)


    Tell us:

    1.) What work have you done in which you boast because it has saved you eternally?

    2.) What work have you done so that you trust it has justified you eternally?
  7. Standard memberRajk999
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    07 Jul '15 10:48
    Originally posted by sonship
    [b]Unjust 1 - Their God will burn and torment for all eternity anyone that does not believe in Christ or, did not hear about Christ, or never accepted Christ, as their saviour, even if that person may have lived lives full of love, charity, forgiveness, mercy and generosity towards others.

    Three questions for you:

    1.) Some people want nothing to ...[text shortened]... lief and rejection. Whatever the situation of the unknowing that is probably not your situation.[/b]
    How can anyone trust that the ramblings of an insane man contains any truth in it.
    How are you insane?
    You said you have three questions for me but you asked no question in your post.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    07 Jul '15 10:531 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    As has been pointed out to you numerous times some are saved with reward and some are saved yet so as through fire, suffering loss of some reward. [b](1 Cor. 3:13-15) . ..[/b]
    WRONG ! As I pointed out to you MANY times that passage contains THREE groups of people.... NOT TWO.

    The last group you conveniently ignore because it conflicts with your doctrine:

    Here it is again:

    Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (1 Corinthians 3:13-17 KJV)

    Three groups:
    1. Those who get a reward and saved
    2. Those who get no reward [or a loss] but still get saved
    3. Those who defile the temple of God [their body through sin] and ARE DESTROYED BY GOD.

    You are a religious shyster... fooling the gullible with your false doctrine.
  9. Subscribersonhouse
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    07 Jul '15 10:59
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    WRONG ! As I pointed out to you MANY times that passage contains THREE groups of people.... NOT TWO.

    The last group you conveniently ignore because it conflicts with your doctrine:

    Here it is again:

    [i]Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work ...[text shortened]... STROYED BY GOD.

    You are a religious shyster... fooling the gullible with your false doctrine.
    Well, him and a few billion other fellow duped ones.
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    07 Jul '15 11:02
    Originally posted by sonship
    [b] "A factious man, after the first and second admonition refuse, knowing that such a one is perverted and is sinning, though he is condemned by his own self." (Titus 3:10,11)


    I don't think you are just mistaken. I think you must be a factious man holding down the truth of the Word of God which has been plainly spoken to you. Such p ...[text shortened]... ou eternally?

    2.) What work have you done so that you trust it has justified you eternally?[/b]
    I have never even stated that 'I am saved eternally', far more to boast about it.
    I never ever use that kind of expression... I leave that for you to say.

    I rather use the expression of Paul and the Apostles .. that we live in the HOPE OF SALVATION:

    But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, (1 Thessalonians 5:8-9 KJV)

    Dont fool yourself. All Christians live with THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. You dont have it yet. All you have right now is talk. You WILL RECEIVE eternal life IF you finish the course, IF you keep the faith, IF you continue in righteousness and good works. .
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    07 Jul '15 11:062 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Doubly unjust is the kind of God in which many Christians believe.

    Unjust 1 - Their God will burn and torment for all eternity anyone that does not believe in Christ or, did not hear about Christ, or never accepted Christ, as their saviour, even if that person may have lived lives full of love, charity, forgiveness, mercy and generosity towards others.
    ...[text shortened]... might be.

    None of these two doctrines is Biblical. Why do they believe in such foolishness?
    Did Saint Paul then go to hell for persecuting and murdering Christians in his life? What could be more depraved and immoral? What "good" could he possibly do to make up for taking innocent life?

    What you believe in is a God that says you can be saved ONLY if you are good enough.
    This is how all religions are geared other than Christianity, and looking at the world today appears to be one of the most exclusive clubs in the universe. Talk about exclusive. It also makes a mockery of the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross as not only being unnecessary, but also casts God as a sadist of some sort.
  12. Standard memberRajk999
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    07 Jul '15 11:151 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Did Saint Paul then go to hell for persecuting and murdering Christians in his life? What could be more depraved and immoral? What "good" could he possibly do to make up for taking innocent life?

    What you believe in is a God that says you can be saved ONLY if you are good enough.
    This is how all religions are geared other than Christianity, and lookin ...[text shortened]... us made on the cross as not only being unnecessary, but also casts God as a sadist of some sort.
    How does that make a mockery of the sacrifice of Jesus? How? Please explain.

    Please quote the Bible if you are speaking to me, if you are a Christian. Dont talk from the top of your head or from what you heard the pastor say. I can quote yo dozens of places in the teachings of Christ and the Apostles that GOOD WORKS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS AND REFRAINING FROM SIN IS THE PATHWAY TO GODS KINGDOM. What Christ did is to clean the sinner of SIN IN THE FLESH ... THE INHERITED SIN OF ADAM WHICH CAUSED THE FALL OF MANKIND. A sacrifice was required for that otherwise NO FLESH COULD BE SAVED.

    Christ died to 'clean your slate' to turn you from a sinner into a follower of righetousness. Christ did not die so that someone can continue on with sin:

    For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)

    If you accept Christ and you are righteous now, God gives the Christian many many chances for repentance and forgiveness. But there are some that sin beyond what God is prepared to forgive.

    I take my doctrine from the Bible and the teachings of Christ and the Aposltes. I hope you do as well.

    By the way according to Paul .. IT IS THE CONTINUOUS SINNER THAT MAKES A MOKERY OF CHRIST.... hope you get that.
  13. Standard membersonship
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    07 Jul '15 11:249 edits
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Three groups:
    1. Those who get a reward and saved
    2. Those who get no reward [or a loss] but still get saved
    3. Those who defile the temple of God [their body through sin] and ARE DESTROYED BY GOD.

    You are a religious shyster... fooling the gullible with your false
    doctrine.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    There are TWO groups in chapter three.
    You still don't understand the passage.
    There are TWO groups not three.

    The ones who are warned not to destroy God's temple are the ones BUILDING with inferior materials of wood, grass, stubble (verse 12). These materials destroy the temple of God when attempted to be used for its building. They who thus builded are not rewarded.

    The destroying is the suffering of loss.
    The destroying is the losing of the soul life as Jesus warned that to save our soul life we must lose it.

    It is the building upon the foundation of Christ with gold, silver and precious stones which is to build with those characteristics resulting from God working Himself into believers.

    It is the building upon the foundation with wood, grass, stubble which is to mar the temple, defile the temple. Rather than build the church these things of the old nature mar and defile the temple.

    So there are TWO categories there and BOTH are of those SAVED eternally.

    "Do you not know that you are the temple of God ?"


    No unbeliever is a part of the church, the temple of God.

    "Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? "


    It is the Christians who have been redeemed and justified who have the Spirit of God dwelling in them making them constituents of the Christian church. Some go on to have their soul transformed. And some to more degree and some to less degree and some not much at all. To ALL Paul gives then the warning:

    " If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and such are you."


    Since we believers have the Holy Spirit and are collectively the temple of God we need transformation so that we would be holy in all our living to. This is to build with worthwhile materials. To remain untransformed runs the danger of building the church with the old man, That old man will be destroyed in the coming age of the millennial kingdom IF we do not realize that it has been crucified with Christ in the age of grace.

    And to lose that old fallen personality is to SUFFER LOSS. Yet the disciplined one will be saved eternally, yet so as through fire.
  14. Standard memberRajk999
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    07 Jul '15 11:401 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    [b] Three groups:
    1. Those who get a reward and saved
    2. Those who get no reward [or a loss] but still get saved
    3. Those who defile the temple of God [their body through sin] and ARE DESTROYED BY GOD.

    You are a religious shyster... fooling the gullible with your false
    doctrine.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------ ...[text shortened]... lity is to SUFFER LOSS. Yet the disciplined one will be saved eternally, yet so as through fire.[/b]
    What utter nonsense and what extreme lengths you go to twist the word of God. Clearly you have no respect for truth.

    The passage is ALL about preachers and teachers in the temple of God. There are no outsiders or unbelievers and ALL ARE CHRISTIANS:

    If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. (1 Corinthians 3:17-18 KJV).

    Notice the wording
    : If any man defile the temple of God
    .. which temple ye are..
    .. Let no man deceive himself
    .. If any man among you

    All refer to the Christian preachers and teachers in the group. The temple of God is not a physical temple but ALL THOSE THAT CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIANS AND FOLLOWERS.

    Again 3 groups in that temple of God:
    1. Salvation and reward
    2. Salvation and no reward
    3. Destruction.
  15. Standard membersonship
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    07 Jul '15 11:531 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I have never even stated that 'I am saved eternally', far more to boast about it.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Then you don't have any assurance of being saved as Paul taught -
    He used the PAST TENSE -

    " For by grace YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED through faith ..." (Eph. 2:8)


    He is not telling them to hope or wait and see how things turn out. He says the HAVE BEEN saved.

    It is no wonder that you would not have the assurance when you think the Lord Jesus's speaking of the blood of the covenant was only for the 12 at the last supper.

    I never ever use that kind of expression... I leave that for you to say.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Apostle Paul uses the expression in Ephesians 2:8. And it is used elsewhere in the New Testament as well. We are echoing what the New Testament TEACHES.


    I rather use the expression of Paul and the Apostles .. that we live in the HOPE OF SALVATION:

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So do I because salvation includes three matters:

    1.) The regeneration of the spirit.
    2.) The transformation of the soul.
    3.) The transfiguration of the body.

    So ALL three aspects of salvation are not yet accomplished and I am still in the process. In spite of this there is also speech of having BEEN saved and having eternal life NOW.

    "Now are we the children of God" John writes. And it does not yet appear what these children will be in full maturity.

    "Beloved, now we are the children of God, and it has not yet been manifested what we will be. We know that if He is manfested, we will be like Him because we will see Him even as He is." (1 John 3:1)


    So I can say I hope for the completion of God's full salvation AND I can also boldly proclaim that I have been SAVED.


    But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, (1 Thessalonians 5:8-9 KJV)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I love that passage no less than you. And while heeding that exhoration I can ALSO say that I have BEEN saved.


    Dont fool yourself. All Christians live with THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. You dont have it yet. All you have right now is talk. You WILL RECEIVE eternal life IF you finish the course, IF you keep the faith, IF you continue in righteousness and good works. .

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    See all I wrote above. Same concept.

    I think it is mostly PRIDE in you that boasts of being saved by your own good works. And it stems from much judging of Christians.
    You love to remind Christians not to have assurance of their salvation.

    False humility and not being able to say you have BEEN saved doesn't impress me. You argue like one who has never read the book of Galatians.
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