1. The Fearful Sphere
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    07 Feb '08 20:26
    What if, while sweeping my kitchen, I forget to sweep out the lint and dust from the corners. I shut off my kitchen light and leave the darkened room, blissfully ignorant of the insufficient effort.

    Consider the dust and lint lying there in the corners of my kitchen... Was it my fault that the dust and lint remains, or does God bear the responsibility? After all, it was He Who deigned to create a world where my kitchen and its lint-filled corners could exist. Surely he had foreknowledge of the dust and lint being left behind in the corners of my kitchen before he created the universe, therefore He must be responsible for the dust and lint since He could have made a world wherein dust and lint gathering in the corners of kitchens is impossible.

    Or perhaps you are driving down the interstate in a great rain storm. Ultimately God is responsible for the falling rain on that particular day, but on this day you choose to drive faster than usual. While passing a semi, your car begins to hydroplane, causing you to swerve into the median and into the oncoming traffic on the opposite side of the interstate. Your car collides with another car, killing both of you instantly. Who is to blame? Do we blame God for sending the rain? Perhaps we blame God for creating a universe where mass transit is necessary? Or do we blame you for failing to drive carefully in hazardous conditions? But if God truly cared about you and those you would ultimately harm, then he would have prevented you from making such an unwise decision in the first place. Right?
  2. tinyurl.com/ywohm
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    08 Feb '08 00:09
    Originally posted by Jorge Borges
    What if, while sweeping my kitchen, I forget to sweep out the lint and dust from the corners. I shut off my kitchen light and leave the darkened room, blissfully ignorant of the insufficient effort.

    Consider the dust and lint lying there in the corners of my kitchen... Was it my fault that the dust and lint remains, or does God bear the responsibil ...[text shortened]... then he would have prevented you from making such an unwise decision in the first place. Right?
    God gave you your own brain. If you choose not to use it, or choose not to use it wisely, it's your fault. The real world isn't a giant Sims game.
  3. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    08 Feb '08 00:24
    Originally posted by Jorge Borges
    What if, while sweeping my kitchen, I forget to sweep out the lint and dust from the corners. I shut off my kitchen light and leave the darkened room, blissfully ignorant of the insufficient effort.

    Consider the dust and lint lying there in the corners of my kitchen... Was it my fault that the dust and lint remains, or does God bear the responsibil ...[text shortened]... then he would have prevented you from making such an unwise decision in the first place. Right?
    I shut off my kitchen light and leave the darkened room, blissfully ignorant of the insufficient effort.

    At this point, we know who you will blame before you even ask the question.

    Ultimately God is responsible for the falling rain on that particular day, but on this day you choose to drive faster than usual.

    Enter the usual counterpoint: Ultimately, God is responsible for everything that occurs, if he is OO [omniscient-omnipotent]. Nothing can obtain without him willing it.

    This doesn't necessarily let the driver off the hook. It's possible that he shares the blame with OO God.
  4. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    08 Feb '08 19:52
    Originally posted by pawnhandler
    God gave you your own brain. If you choose not to use it, or choose not to use it wisely, it's your fault. The real world isn't a giant Sims game.
    My 5-year old has his own brain. He decided to go play in the street. I thought about getting him out of the street, but decided not to violate his free will. A car ran him over. Oh well. He has only himself to blame.
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    08 Feb '08 20:32
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    My 5-year old has his own brain. He decided to go play in the street. I thought about getting him out of the street, but decided not to violate his free will. A car ran him over. Oh well. He has only himself to blame.
    Well just send him to hell forever then 🙂
  6. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    08 Feb '08 21:18
    Originally posted by Kevin Mcfarland
    Well just send him to hell forever then 🙂
    I can't help it if he freely chooses to go there. 😉
  7. The Fearful Sphere
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    08 Feb '08 21:31
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    My 5-year old has his own brain. He decided to go play in the street. I thought about getting him out of the street, but decided not to violate his free will. A car ran him over. Oh well. He has only himself to blame.
    I see your point. However, children aren't capable of making responsible choices. Sane adults are. After a person reaches an 'age of accountability', an age which varies person to person, thereafter he is morally responsible for his own choices.
  8. The Fearful Sphere
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    08 Feb '08 21:36
    Originally posted by Kevin Mcfarland
    Well just send him to hell forever then 🙂
    God doesn't send children to hell. Neither does He send adults to hell. People choose to go to hell, rather than submit to God's will. It's a pride thing. God doesn't hold children responsible for their actions, but the pride of life can keep adults from forsaking themselves and entering the Kingdom of Heaven.
  9. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    08 Feb '08 21:41
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    My 5-year old has his own brain. He decided to go play in the street. I thought about getting him out of the street, but decided not to violate his free will. A car ran him over. Oh well. He has only himself to blame.
    The big difference is that with you, you don't know if he'll be hit by a car or not. Maybe he will, or maybe he won't. He could turn out just fine. But if you were an omniscient god, you'd know if he was going to be hit, down to the exact second. To do nothing in that case is a crime of a far greater magnitude.
  10. tinyurl.com/ywohm
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    08 Feb '08 23:01
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    My 5-year old has his own brain. He decided to go play in the street. I thought about getting him out of the street, but decided not to violate his free will. A car ran him over. Oh well. He has only himself to blame.
    I didn't say "a child who has not yet reached the age of reason." I said "you." We are talking about you, and what pieces of your life are your responsibility.
  11. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    08 Feb '08 23:26
    Originally posted by pawnhandler
    I didn't say "a child who has not yet reached the age of reason." I said "you." We are talking about you, and what pieces of your life are your responsibility.
    To an all-knowing being, we would seem like children even at the height of our intellectual powers.
  12. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    08 Feb '08 23:27
    Originally posted by Jorge Borges
    People choose to go to hell
    Hah! Beat you to it!! 😀
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    09 Feb '08 00:48
    Originally posted by Jorge Borges
    God doesn't send children to hell. Neither does He send adults to hell. People choose to go to hell, rather than submit to God's will. It's a pride thing. God doesn't hold children responsible for their actions, but the pride of life can keep adults from forsaking themselves and entering the Kingdom of Heaven.
    Are you sure he does not send kids to hell the bible says we all have the curse of Adam on us? Not trying to be plain dumb but I know it feels good to say kids don't go to hell but the bible kinda does not say they go to heven if they die???? I would say it kinda points the other way??? I am sure u will say I am crazy for this thought. Maybe even bring up the time when Jesus did not force the kids away?
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    09 Feb '08 00:52
    Originally posted by rwingett
    The big difference is that with you, you don't know if he'll be hit by a car or not. Maybe he will, or maybe he won't. He could turn out just fine. But if you were an omniscient god, you'd know if he was going to be hit, down to the exact second. To do nothing in that case is a crime of a far greater magnitude.
    Going along with this post it would be best to kill our kids before they reach the age of accountablety????? Also where is this magic age in the Bible I cannot find it or where it even metions such thing?
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    11 Feb '08 21:27
    ? Just bumping this to the top of page 🙂 Any awnsers guys?
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