Originally posted by Kevin Mcfarland Are you sure he does not send kids to hell the bible says we all have the curse of Adam on us? Not trying to be plain dumb but I know it feels good to say kids don't go to hell but the bible kinda does not say they go to heven if they die???? I would say it kinda points the other way??? I am sure u will say I am crazy for this thought. Maybe even bring up the time when Jesus did not force the kids away?
God is just. A just God doesn't send adults, let alone children, to hell for knowledge of the incarnate Christ they didn't have. God judges people according to the knowledge they do have. Therefore, an Eskimo who has never heard of Jesus, but who nevertheless obeyed the Light of Christ in his conscience (the Light which lights the conscience of every person entering the world; see John 1:18), will find salvation despite never hearing about Jesus. Children are even more in the clear, having never reached an age of accountability.
Originally posted by Jorge Borges God is just. A just God doesn't send adults, let alone children, to hell for knowledge of the incarnate Christ they didn't have. God judges people according to the knowledge they do have. Therefore, an Eskimo who has never heard of Jesus, but who nevertheless obeyed the Light of Christ in his conscience (the Light which lights the conscience o ...[text shortened]... ut Jesus. Children are even more in the clear, having never reached an age of accountability.
So the majority of souls go to Heaven without the whole bother of "free will". Why then does God bother to make a decided minority jump through such a hoop?
Originally posted by DoctorScribbles If this is so, doesn't it follow that missionaries only harm people's chances of getting to heaven by sharing knowledge with them?
Yup. By giving them the chance to reject jesus they are giving them the chance to go to hell.
I think many would prefer to be ignorant of jesus and be judged on their actions.
Originally posted by Jorge Borges What if, while sweeping my kitchen, I forget to sweep out the lint and dust from the corners. I shut off my kitchen light and leave the darkened room, blissfully ignorant of the insufficient effort.
Consider the dust and lint lying there in the corners of my kitchen... Was it my fault that the dust and lint remains, or does God bear the responsibil ...[text shortened]... then he would have prevented you from making such an unwise decision in the first place. Right?
Wrong! We are responsible. We will be held to account for all our choices.
Originally posted by SwissGambit My 5-year old has his own brain. He decided to go play in the street. I thought about getting him out of the street, but decided not to violate his free will. A car ran him over. Oh well. He has only himself to blame.
Originally posted by Jorge Borges What if, while sweeping my kitchen, I forget to sweep out the lint and dust from the corners. I shut off my kitchen light and leave the darkened room, blissfully ignorant of the insufficient effort.
Consider the dust and lint lying there in the corners of my kitchen... Was it my fault that the dust and lint remains, or does God bear the responsibil ...[text shortened]... then he would have prevented you from making such an unwise decision in the first place. Right?
God IS responsible for the dust in the corners, of course. Why?
When God created us, he already knew we wouldn't clean the dust that day. All things are under God's control, so everything that happens was already premeditated by God.
Free will is incompatible with omniscient God.
(This assuming there's an omniscient abstract God, to start with...)
So according to many here: God is all powerful and all that, thus he/she/it has the power to intervene as he/she/it chooses, yes?
So we his creation decide to more or less completely destroy this planet he/she/it created....... Thats when we're not too pre-occupied with destroying each other......
And yet never has there been a clear Intervention.......
We decide to commit atrocities against each other, often in he/she/it's name.......
And yet never has there been a clear Intervention.......
We do things which directly oppose the messages he sent to us in the form of the bible/other religious texts, prophets etc.
And yet never has there been a clear Intervention.......
From this is it not a more valid possibility, assuming there is such an omniscient being out there, that he/she/it doesn't care and has left us to figure it out for ourselves?
I know that Idea scares a lot of people but its a clear and valid conclusion drawn from whats happened in the short time since we arrived on this 4.5 Million+ year old planet. Which was here long before people invented religion and will be here long after we've killed ourselves off....
God forbid you be forced to think about things from a different angle.
You're one of the simplest fools on this forum, and that's saying something. But, please do continue; it's entertaining watching you make an arse out of yourself over and over again.
Originally posted by Jorge Borges I see your point. However, children aren't capable of making responsible choices. Sane adults are.
No they are not. Even you admitted to not sweeping up the dust and lint. 🙂
Sane adults are more capable of certain choices, but there is not clear division or specific age or specific quality of choice that we are capable of getting 'right'. In fact, many adults make many unresponsible choices that a child may actually get right.
Originally posted by Jorge Borges God doesn't send children to hell. Neither does He send adults to hell. People choose to go to hell, rather than submit to God's will. It's a pride thing.
But did we choose to have pride?
God doesn't hold children responsible for their actions, but the pride of life can keep adults from forsaking themselves and entering the Kingdom of Heaven. As asked by others, why give us life then?
Originally posted by Jorge Borges God judges people according to the knowledge they do have. Therefore, an Eskimo who has never heard of Jesus, but who nevertheless obeyed the Light of Christ in his conscience (the Light which lights the conscience of every person entering the world; see John 1:18), will find salvation despite never hearing about Jesus.
So, since I do not have knowledge of Jesus (since I dismiss all reports about him as nonsense), how do I know whether I have obeyed the Light of Christ in my conscience? And since I (and the eskimos) was not aware that I needed to obey said light, how can I be held morally responsible for disobeying it?
Originally posted by Jorge Borges I see your point. However, children aren't capable of making responsible choices. Sane adults are. After a person reaches an 'age of accountability', an age which varies person to person, thereafter he is morally responsible for his own choices.
In comparison between god and a sane adult human, it would be more like a human and dust/lint... so if god doesn't want to help someone that below him, he's just selfish.
Dust and Lint and Car Accidents
11 Feb '08 21:28
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