Earth without gods or demons.

Originally posted by RJHinds
What is honest thuggery?

The dude saying 'I am the baddest SOB in the valley so you better do what I say'. At least you can muster resistance to some assshole like that.

There IS no resistance to the scourge of religion.

Originally posted by sonhouse
What would the religious bunch do then, if it were proven none of that crap exists?

So quit talking and start proving.





Yeah, I thought so.

Originally posted by Suzianne
So quit talking and start proving.





Yeah, I thought so.

Already been done.

For those willing to listen.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Already been done.

For those willing to listen.

I don't think so, someone making their case does not mean it was proven
only that the case has been made by them. I do believe that is the issue
with some here, they believe once they present their side of the story than
nothing more needs to be done, then after that anyone who disagrees must
be out to lunch or a liar of some sort.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I don't think so, someone making their case does not mean it was proven
only that the case has been made by them. I do believe that is the issue
with some here, they believe once they present their side of the story than
nothing more needs to be done, then after that anyone who disagrees must
be out to lunch or a liar of some sort.

It is of course true that simply presenting your case doesn't mean that you are correct.


Unless your case is a logically valid sound argument based on the available facts and
is sufficiently justified to qualify as proven to whatever agreed upon standard is
required.


I am not saying that people have claimed that the god of the bible has been proven*
not to exist.

I am saying it has been proven that the god of the bible does not exist.

*beyond any and all reasonable doubt, to a statistical certainty, not an epistemological
one.


And my main point is that the relevant information and reason is out there, but you
wont find it if you bury your head in the sand.

And you cannot honestly claim it doesn't exist when you [Suzianne] run away any time
someone tries to actually take you through it.

In the same way that you cannot honestly claim that evolution isn't supported by evidence
when you ignore all attempts by people to show you all the evidence you deny exists.

You are at that point demonstrating will-full ignorance.

Originally posted by googlefudge
It is of course true that simply presenting your case doesn't mean that you are correct.


Unless your case is a logically valid sound argument based on the available facts and
is sufficiently justified to qualify as proven to whatever agreed upon standard is
required.


I am not saying that people have claimed that the god of the bible has bee ...[text shortened]... ou all the evidence you deny exists.

You are at that point demonstrating will-full ignorance.

"sufficiently justified to qualify as proven"


Weasel words if I've ever heard them. You can't justify anything that is false.

Surely the onus of proof is always on the people who produce an idea ,especially if they claim ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Otherwise all unsupported ideas have equal validity, bring on father xmass and the tooth fairy.

Originally posted by googlefudge
It is of course true that simply presenting your case doesn't mean that you are correct.


Unless your case is a logically valid sound argument based on the available facts and
is sufficiently justified to qualify as proven to whatever agreed upon standard is
required.


I am not saying that people have claimed that the god of the bible has bee ...[text shortened]... ou all the evidence you deny exists.

You are at that point demonstrating will-full ignorance.

"I am saying it has been proven that the god of the bible does not exist."

Let us see the proof!

Originally posted by googlefudge
It is of course true that simply presenting your case doesn't mean that you are correct.


Unless your case is a logically valid sound argument based on the available facts and
is sufficiently justified to qualify as proven to whatever agreed upon standard is
required.


I am not saying that people have claimed that the god of the bible has bee ...[text shortened]... ou all the evidence you deny exists.

You are at that point demonstrating will-full ignorance.

You see this is the problem. Non theists might agree to some beyond reasonable doubt formulation, but the theists never going to accept a disproof of God's existence where there was any epistemological uncertainty. Of course if it were a proof of God's existence then I suspect the standards the theists required would be lower. Certainly atheists who do not have much emotional investment in their atheism would not mind God's existence being proven, it would come as a surprise but nothing more. However, those that do have a high emotional investment in their atheism would start insisting on epistemological certainty. Since I'm pretty sure no such certainty is possible with anything, never mind the existence of God, the entire thread is somewhat moot.

Originally posted by sonhouse
The dude saying 'I am the baddest SOB in the valley so you better do what I say'. At least you can muster resistance to some assshole like that.

There IS no resistance to the scourge of religion.

Why do you keep saying, "Bah Humbug!" all the time? Why must you spoil Christmas for everyone?

Originally posted by Suzianne
Weasel words if I've ever heard them. You can't justify anything that is false.

Well then, if he has justified it, it must therefore be true.

Originally posted by Suzianne
So quit talking and start proving.





Yeah, I thought so.

No proof I could give would convince you anyway so it isn't worth the effort.

I already said one proof is the number of religions on Earth totally at each others throats and you pull the free will card.

It doesn't matter WHAT I bring up, the religious crowd will have a ready answer, having gone through this for the last few thousand years and have honed their answers to answer all the charges.

Like the fact there was 100 MILLION killed in WW2 and the rest of the 20th century and last I heard, no deity spoke out about that horrible carnage and genocide.

It seems just as clear to me all 7+ billion of us could die and also no deity would respond.

Originally posted by sonhouse
No proof I could give would convince you anyway so it isn't worth the effort.

I already said one proof is the number of religions on Earth totally at each others throats and you pull the free will card.

It doesn't matter WHAT I bring up, the religious crowd will have a ready answer, having gone through this for the last few thousand years and have hon ...[text shortened]...

It seems just as clear to me all 7+ billion of us could die and also no deity would respond.

This is merely because, for the righteous as well as the unrighteous, all reward will be found after Judgement.

And any death in the meantime is just a part of our soul's journey.

Regardless of how high you pump up your volume, it doesn't make it any more true that "God doesn't hear us", or that "God has abandoned us", or even that there is no God.

Originally posted by Suzianne
This is merely because, for the righteous as well as the unrighteous, all reward will be found after Judgement.

And any death in the meantime is just a part of our soul's journey.

Regardless of how high you pump up your volume, it doesn't make it any more true that "God doesn't hear us", or that "God has abandoned us", or even that there is no God.

Don't you think that the philosophy you have outlined is a great way to devalue life, as it becomes merely a temporary phase?

Originally posted by OdBod
Don't you think that the philosophy you have outlined is a great way to devalue life, as it becomes merely a temporary phase?

No, I don't think that at all.

Why would you think I think that?

Oh, right. It's part of the "theists are always wrong" doctrine.