1. Subscribersonhouse
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    21 Mar '15 22:47
    http://www.aldokkan.com/religion/creation.htm

    Looks like a carefully crafted plagiarized story to me. The similarities are so close you have to see the parallels in the two myths.
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
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    22 Mar '15 05:31
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://www.aldokkan.com/religion/creation.htm

    Looks like a carefully crafted plagiarized story to me. The similarities are so close you have to see the parallels in the two myths.
    To me this Egyptian creation story is definitely a myth as you claim. However, the Hebrew creation story seems to be more accurate to what science has been able to determine. Based on what we know today the Hebrew creation story is defintely a more credible account of what might have happened at creation than the Egyptian myth. So if the Hebrews borrowed from the Egyptian version, they made improvements.
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    22 Mar '15 06:23
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    To me this Egyptian creation story is definitely a myth as you claim. However, the Hebrew creation story seems to be more accurate to what science has been able to determine. Based on what we know today the Hebrew creation story is defintely a more credible account of what might have happened at creation than the Egyptian myth. So if the Hebrews borrowed from the Egyptian version, they made improvements.
    How is the hebrew story agreeing with what science teaches us today?
    How is the hebrew version the word of god if it borrows and "improves" on the egyptian story?
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    22 Mar '15 06:47
    Originally posted by C Hess
    How is the hebrew story agreeing with what science teaches us today?
    How is the hebrew version the word of god if it borrows and "improves" on the egyptian story?
    The simple question would be how doesn't the Hebrew creation story agree with the science of today? Of course to answer that question correctly, you must keep in mind that the theory of evolution is not proven science today, but only a myth.

    One improvement that the Hebrew version makes is to eliminate the many gods by replacing them with the triune God. I would suspect that even you as an atheist would appreciate that one.
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    22 Mar '15 06:52
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The simple question would be how doesn't the Hebrew creation story agree with the science of today? Of course to answer that question correctly, you must keep in mind that the theory of evolution is not proven science today, but only a myth.

    One improvement that the Hebrew version makes is to eliminate the many gods by replacing them with the triune God. I would suspect that even you as an atheist would appreciate that one.
    Okay, let's hear it, how doesn't the hebrew story agree with science today?

    And I didn't ask what improvements you think were made from egyptian to hebrew mythology. I asked how is it the word of god, if it needs to borrow from earlier mythology? God couldn't make his own story up?
  6. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Mar '15 07:58
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://www.aldokkan.com/religion/creation.htm

    Looks like a carefully crafted plagiarized story to me. The similarities are so close you have to see the parallels in the two myths.
    It could also be that what was handed down was so close it verified what
    scripture taught. Just as their are flood stories around the world and creation
    stories. Big events tend to be remembered, but through time they change a
    little here a little there.
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    22 Mar '15 08:20
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    It could also be that what was handed down was so close it verified what
    scripture taught. Just as their are flood stories around the world and creation
    stories. Big events tend to be remembered, but through time they change a
    little here a little there.
    So the hebrew stories have changed a little here and a little there?
  8. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    22 Mar '15 08:23
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    you must keep in mind that the theory of evolution is not proven science today, but only a myth.

    One improvement that the Hebrew version makes is to eliminate the many gods by replacing them with the triune God. I would suspect that even you as an atheist would appreciate that one.[/b]
    The theory that the theory of evolution is a a myth,....is a myth.

    And why would the Hebrew version replace the many gods with a triune God, when it categorically does not believe in the Trinity?
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    22 Mar '15 08:52
    Originally posted by C Hess
    So the hebrew stories have changed a little here and a little there?
    I imagine any story until it becomes text runs that risk, or if someone who
    was there retells it.
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    22 Mar '15 12:12
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://www.aldokkan.com/religion/creation.htm

    Looks like a carefully crafted plagiarized story to me. The similarities are so close you have to see the parallels in the two myths.
    If all peoples came from the same place and same traditions as the Bible claims, who is copying who?
  11. Standard membersonship
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    22 Mar '15 12:493 edits
    If early people had collective memory of explanations for creation, it is understandable that there would be differing versions with some similarities.

    Noah and his family comes off of the ark with traditions about creation. These I believe were passed down to them from Adam and his family descendents whether good or bad. Now these descendents of Noah multiply, spread (especially from Babel) and carry these basic oral traditions with them into multiplying cultures.

    The oral account goes through modifications to adopt to various colloquial needs and aspirations. So the fact that we find an Egyptian tradition which somewhat contains some similarities to the Hebrew Bible is understandable.

    Rather than negate that the Bible is God's revelation it could actually confirm it. In the collective memory of early cultures was an account perhaps handed down from Adam through Noah and out into the spreading languages which went through modifications but retained some underlying similarities.

    Rather than plagiarism I think we're looking at diverse embellishment.

    The article is not a LITERAL translation of either writing as far as I see. An interpretation is set forth. I know the Hebrew says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." placing God transcendent over and outside of time, space, matter, motion, and energy.

    He is not IN creation making creation in Genesis 1:1. And this was always the understanding of the Jews. The article doesn't faithfully indicate this about the Bible.

    And I would ask anyone to submit, not a paraphrase, not an interpretation, but translation of any mythology clearly placing the creator of the universe before and outside of time, space, and matter the way Genesis 1:1 specifies God wholly transcendent and "prior" to all creation.

    "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
  12. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 Mar '15 16:50
    Originally posted by sonship
    If early people had collective memory of explanations for creation, it is understandable that there would be differing versions with some similarities.

    Noah and his family comes off of the ark with traditions about creation. These I believe were passed down to them from [b] Adam
    and his family descendents whether good or bad. Now these descendents ...[text shortened]... d "prior" to all creation.

    "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." [/b]
    You seem to be ignoring the fact the Egyptian/Hebrew creation myth was not the only one in Egypt ATT. There were several in Egypt at that time. To say nothing of creation myths by the hundreds around the world.

    All of those hundreds of creation myths have exactly the same credibility as the Egyptian/Hebrew myth.
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
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    22 Mar '15 18:09
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    The theory that the theory of evolution is a a myth,....is a myth.

    And why would the Hebrew version replace the many gods with a triune God, when it categorically does not believe in the Trinity?
    Not so.

    http://creation.com/science-creation-and-evolutionism-refutation-of-nas#selfserving
  14. Standard membersonship
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    22 Mar '15 21:314 edits
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    You seem to be ignoring the fact the Egyptian/Hebrew creation myth was not the only one in Egypt ATT. There were several in Egypt at that time. To say nothing of creation myths by the hundreds around the world.


    I didn't "forget" that there are multitudes of cosmogonies of ancient and modern cultures.


    All of those hundreds of creation myths have exactly the same credibility as the Egyptian/Hebrew myth.


    I don't think you answered my challenge. The Hebrew Bible has God totally outside of time, space, matter bringing into existence the universe.

    I asked you to quote me a clear example of the same - a deity completely transcendent to the material universe of space and time, bringing about its existence from nothing.

    Your next post to should be an attempt to quote an English translation of a myth proving something other than a god WITHIN space and time working to make the creation.

    I am looking for an ancient account with the equivalent of God calling the universe into being out of absolutely nothing prior.

    Do you have a sample?
  15. Standard memberDeepThought
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    22 Mar '15 22:10
    Originally posted by sonship
    You seem to be ignoring the fact the Egyptian/Hebrew creation myth was not the only one in Egypt ATT. There were several in Egypt at that time. To say nothing of creation myths by the hundreds around the world.


    I didn't "forget" that there are multitudes of cosmogonies of ancient and modern cultures.

    [quote]
    All of those hundreds ...[text shortened]... God calling the universe into being out of absolutely nothing prior.

    Do you have a sample?
    The Egyptian God Ptah existed before all other things and thought the world into existence. This is creation ex nihilo. It is not only the Hebrew creation myth that involves this. The Egyptians didn't mind their various mythologies contradicting each other.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptah
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