While most would agree that one's capacity for empathy is arguably an important basis for morally sound behaviour ~ and without forgetting that this is all in the realm of subjectivity ~ can empathy, in fact, lead to support for - or even participation in - morally unsound actions in certain situations, despite being virtuous in and of itself?
02 Aug 20
@fmf saidYes I think so; a vicarious retaliation perhaps...
While most would agree that one's capacity for empathy is arguably an important basis for morally sound behaviour ~ and without forgetting that this is all in the realm of subjectivity ~ can empathy, in fact, lead to support for - or even participation in - morally unsound actions in certain situations, despite being virtuous in and of itself?
For example. a situation where you see a friend shouting a provocative but morally neutral slogan at someone or a group and that someone brings a couple of mates and does them over. You might feel a surge of empathy and steam in yourself to defend them.
@caesar-salad saidHi Caesar Salad, what are you up to today?
Everything cozy here, "gents"?
03 Aug 20
@fmf saidGreat post.
While most would agree that one's capacity for empathy is arguably an important basis for morally sound behaviour ~ and without forgetting that this is all in the realm of subjectivity ~ can empathy, in fact, lead to support for - or even participation in - morally unsound actions in certain situations, despite being virtuous in and of itself?
It is completely true that misguided empathy can result in all sorts of injusitces.
People who begin to fight on behalf of "humanity" or any other nebulous value paint their opposition as cruel on a very fundamental level, and therefore worthy of cruelty, as it is actually very rare to meet a true pacifist.
The first person who invokes humanity & humanitarianism is often the first person to dehumanize someone else.
03 Aug 20
@philokalia saidNot me...I “fight” on behalf of populations, especially children who have been brutally traumatised, yet I always feel the trauma of the perpetrator as well. I do not wish them I’ll will.
Great post.
It is completely true that misguided empathy can result in all sorts of injusitces.
People who begin to fight on behalf of "humanity" or any other nebulous value paint their opposition as cruel on a very fundamental level, and therefore worthy of cruelty, as it is actually very rare to meet a true pacifist.
The first person who invokes humanity & humanitarianism is often the first person to dehumanize someone else.
And while I think your opinion is a very broad generalisation, I do not think you are any less human for it.
03 Aug 20
@philokalia saidDo you feel you are ever dehumanized and treated cruelly by people who have "misguided empathy" for their fellow human beings? If so, can you give any examples of how their empathy was "misguided" and exactly how you were "dehumanized"?
People who begin to fight on behalf of "humanity" or any other nebulous value paint their opposition as cruel on a very fundamental level, and therefore worthy of cruelty, as it is actually very rare to meet a true pacifist.
03 Aug 20
@philokalia saidDo you also believe that the first person who opposes or rejects those who invoke humanity and humanitarianism is often the first person to dehumanize someone else?
The first person who invokes humanity & humanitarianism is often the first person to dehumanize someone else.
03 Aug 20
@hakima saidI thank you for pointing out that there are exceptions.
Not me...I “fight” on behalf of populations, especially children who have been brutally traumatised, yet I always feel the trauma of the perpetrator as well. I do not wish them I’ll will.
And while I think your opinion is a very broad generalisation, I do not think you are any less human for it.
While I did do so in my post, it is certainly important to hit that nail again for good measure.
03 Aug 20
@fmf saidThis is not useful in terms of the personal, so it is a bad question. It should be kept on the level of the general as we are talking about how empathy/morality plays out broadly.
Do you feel you are ever dehumanized and treated cruelly by people who have "misguided empathy" for their fellow human beings? If so, can you give any examples of how their empathy was "misguided" and exactly how you were "dehumanized"?
So, I will pass on these because I do not think it is the right direction to go in this discussion. 🙂
@philokalia saidIf you have no examples to offer, your sweeping generalization comes across as rather misanthropic and litlle more than a kind of poisoning of the well, as they say.
This is not useful in terms of the personal, so it is a bad question. It should be kept on the level of the general as we are talking about how empathy/morality plays out broadly.
So, I think you are mistaken. I think it is a good question that gives you the opportunity to turn what sounded like wishy-washy partisan sneering into something more substantial or authentic about how empathy/morality plays out
03 Aug 20
@philokalia saidYou asserted that the first person who invokes humanity & humanitarianism is often the first person to dehumanize someone else.
So, I will pass on these because I do not think it is the right direction to go in this discussion.
Do you also believe that the first person who opposes or rejects those who invoke humanity and humanitarianism is often the first person to dehumanize someone else?
03 Aug 20
@philokalia saidI disagree. Empathy is a personal virtue. The question of how empathy affects morality is one that is worthy of self reflection in the same way that one considers how personal philanthropy affects morality. Sometimes the questions that lead to this sort of self reflection are hard and doubly so when posed by another. The story of the man who went away sorrowing after Jesus admonished selling his possessions to benefit the poor in order to get to heaven comes to mind.
This is not useful in terms of the personal, so it is a bad question. It should be kept on the level of the general as we are talking about how empathy/morality plays out broadly.
So, I will pass on these because I do not think it is the right direction to go in this discussion. 🙂
03 Aug 20
@fmf saidOh, I have no issue with talking about how people who say humanity is X, and so people who do not support X are bigots, are dehumanizing others.
If you have no examples to offer, your sweeping generalization comes across as rather misanthropic and litlle more than a kind of poisoning of the well, as they say.
So, I think you are mistaken. I think it is a good question that gives you the opportunity to turn what sounded like wishy-washy partisan sneering into something more substantial or authentic about how empathy/morality plays out
But this is not in a personal sense. It is the division of humanity into those who are humanitarian/good and those who are bigoted/bad.
I suppose sometimes it does become personal, as in literally saying that John Boy is a bigot because of X, but that is skating off into the territory of drama.