05 Aug 20
@fmf saidWhat don't you understand about my statement? Or are you merely repeating yourself for dramatic effect?
Did he or didn't he?
If I am in an internet courtroom, let me know.
I would like to appoint divegeester as my lawyer, and I would like Ghost of a Duke to be the judge. You can be the prosecutor. The upvotes & downvotes will be the jurors.
Let's play!
05 Aug 20
@philokalia saidWas Carl Schmitt's dehumanization of Jews ~ whether it was hypocritical or not hypocritical ~ the kind of thinking that led to violence against them and to the Holocaust?
It would have been hypocritical of him if he did so by invoking humanity as a whole, or some universal value.
05 Aug 20
@philokalia saidI saw it as a dodge. I saw it as you sidestepping the actual words of mine that you were purporting to be replying to.
What don't you understand about my statement?
05 Aug 20
@philokalia saidI think you have been wriggling and dissembling for page after page. I think you have laid out your side of it pretty clearly and I think I have done the same, throughout this thread, in fact. I will let onlookers make of it what they want.
Let's play!
05 Aug 20
@fmf saidI've never read a single thing that Schmitt said about Jewish people, and am unaware of any high profile statements that he made about them at all. It seems unlikely that he had anything to do with this.
Was Carl Schmitt's dehumanization of Jews ~ whether it was hypocritical or not hypocritical ~ the kind of thinking that led to violence against them and to the Holocaust?
Nietzsche, however -- !
https://paradoxoftheday.com/nietzsche-and-the-jews/
That could get a bit controversial.
Would you tell people to not read or esteem the works of Nietzsche?
Would you like to stand here and ask me to condemn Nietzsche, after you do so yourself?
Or is it possible for us to discuss Nietzsche without discussing his anti-Semitism -- an anti-Semitism far more explicit and famous than anything Schmitt ever said - at least, to my knowledge.
05 Aug 20
You know, earlier, on page two, you said...
You should post as you see fit. I think you were poisoning the well on the previous page.
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/spirituality/empathy-and-morality.186411/page-2#post_4248522
How would you characterize what yuo are doing to Schmitt right now?
You are saying that Schmitt was anti-Semitic, and so his statements on invoking humanity are irrelevant, right?
Isn't that....
a little like...
a type of informal fallacy where irrelevant adverse information about a target is preemptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing something that the target person is about to say.
05 Aug 20
@philokalia saidI haven't asked anyone "to not read" anything.
Would you tell people to not read or esteem the works of Nietzsche?
05 Aug 20
@philokalia saidI have simply called Carl Schmitt out for what was along with his active role in the dehumanization of the Jews by the Nazis which culminated in the Holocaust. I have not been poisoning-the-well with broad-brush mealy-mouthed and pseudy aspersions cast upon people who invoke humanity and humanitarianism and whose empathy you view as "misguided".
How would you characterize what yuo are doing to Schmitt right now?
05 Aug 20
@fmf saidThat's great.
I haven't asked anyone "to not read" anything.
So yuo would have no problem with someone using the works of Nietzsche or Schmitt on these here forums, because you do not have an anti-intellectual spirit.
You fully support taking the ideas of anyone, and hashing them out, treating them by their own merit, and discussing them frankly, yes?
It seems like we could be in agreement.
05 Aug 20
@fmf saidOh, OK.
I have simply called Carl Schmitt out for what was along with his active role in the dehumanization of the Jews by the Nazis which culminated in the Holocaust. I have not been poisoning-the-well with broad-brush mealy-mouthed and pseudy aspersions cast upon people who invoke humanity and humanitarianism and whose empathy you view as "misguided".
I assure you, I don't really know anythng about Carl Schmitt's involvement with the Nazis, nor have I read any statement he has made that is anti-Semitic. So, if yuo could enlighten us, that'd be great.
Otherwise, we can just go back to the topic and maybe discuss some of Schmitt's ideas if you like.
05 Aug 20
@philokalia saidI am saying that Carl Schmitt's take on the humanity of Jews led to an attempt by his own political party to exterminate them. That's what I have in mind when I think about Carl Schmitt's ideas on humanity and dehumanization ~ ideas you are apparently inspired by.
You are saying that Schmitt was anti-Semitic, and so his statements on invoking humanity are irrelevant, right?
05 Aug 20
@fmf saidSee, I am not sure about that. It isn't in the work that I read.
I am saying that Carl Schmitt's take on the humanity of Jews led to an attempt by his own political party to exterminate them. That's what I have in mind when I think about Carl Schmitt's ideas on humanity and dehumanization ~ ideas you are apparently inspired by.
Do you have some quotes on that?
05 Aug 20
@philokalia saidHow did Carl Schmitt's "nuanced" "friend/enemy distinction" work out for the Jews he so despised and dehumanized?
You fully support taking the ideas of anyone, and hashing them out, treating them by their own merit, and discussing them frankly, yes?
05 Aug 20
@philokalia saidI suggest you go and have a look at the ideas of this Nazi thinker you are inspired by and do so under your own steam.
See, I am not sure about that. It isn't in the work that I read.
Do you have some quotes on that?
05 Aug 20
Being inspired by Schmitt on views of how the political functions, I imagine, is a lot like being influenced by Nietzsche on what constitutes nobility or some such...
Maybe both of these guys are anti-Semites, and maybe even some aspects of their philosophical views meets these troubling aspects at certain innaleckshual crossroads...
But, we owe it to ourselves to inquire into their ideas, take what we like, discard what we dislike, and to try to gain something from the whole thing.
What do you think, @FMF?