Empathy and Morality

@fmf said
Was he imprisoned or executed by the Nazis when they realized he was ~ as you would have us believe ~ opposed to the "dehumanization" of "enemies"?

Oh but wait...

Wiki [continued]

"Carl Schmitt, in perhaps his best-known formulation, bases his conceptual realm of state sovereignty and autonomy upon the distinction between friend and enemy. This distinction is to be determined "existentially", which is to say that the enemy is whoever is "in a specially intense way, existentially something different and alien, so that in the extreme case conflicts with him are possible." Such an enemy need not even be based on nationality: so long as the conflict is potentially intense enough to become a violent one between political entities, the actual substance of enmity may be anything."

"Although there have been divergent interpretations concerning this work, there is broad agreement that "The Concept of the Political" is an attempt to achieve state unity by defining the content of politics as opposition to the "other" (that is to say, an enemy, a stranger. This applies to any person or entity that represents a serious threat or conflict to one's own interests.)"

@fmf said
Oh but wait...

Wiki [continued]

"Carl Schmitt, in perhaps his best-known formulation, bases his conceptual realm of state sovereignty and autonomy upon the distinction between friend and enemy. This distinction is to be determined "existentially", which is to say that the enemy is whoever is "in a specially intense way, existentially something different and alien, so that i ...[text shortened]... plies to any person or entity that represents a serious threat or conflict to one's own interests.)"

You are making a mistake of scope, FMF. The friend/enemy distinction actually has a lot to do with analyzing stages of history... And the friend/enemy distinction is absolutely preferable to the enemy of humanity distinction, which he credits as being responsible for more heartache and localized genocides.

There's some nuance -- I think you would appreciate it and I am pretty sure there are free PDFs of The Concept of the Political out there.

You should read the book & not jump to wrong conclusions based on a Wikipedia article.

@philokalia said
I did not mention that I was inspired by Schmitt because that usually prompts vitriol from another user about why you talk about what you reading?!

What other prominent members of the German Nazi Party [who gave intellectual support to ~ and were actively involved in ~ Nazism] are you inspired by?

@philokalia said
The friend/enemy distinction actually has a lot to do with analyzing stages of history... And the friend/enemy distinction is absolutely preferable to the enemy of humanity distinction, which he credits as being responsible for more heartache and localized genocides.

There's some nuance -- I think you would appreciate it and I am pretty sure there are free PDFs ...[text shortened]... out there.

You should read the book & not jump to wrong conclusions based on a Wikipedia article.

How did Carl Schmitt's "nuanced" "friend/enemy distinction" affect his stance on Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka, Majdanek and Auschwitz-Birkenau?

@philokalia said
[continued]"Schmitt's work has attracted the attention of numerous philosophers and political theorists, including Giorgio Agamben, Hannah Arendt, Walter Benjamin, Susan Buck-Morss, Jacques Derrida, Jürgen Habermas, Waldemar Gurian, Jaime Guzmán, Reinhart Koselleck, Friedrich Hayek,[7] Chantal Mouffe, Antonio Negri, Leo Strauss, Adrian Vermeule,[8] and Slavoj Žižek, among ...[text shortened]... as a dynamic conservative thinker (Strauss).

Why?

Because they're vital and original ideas.

*"Carl Schmitt (11 July 1888 – 7 April 1985) was a conservative German jurist, political theorist, and prominent member of the Nazi Party. Schmitt wrote extensively about the effective wielding of political power. He is noted as a critic of parliamentary democracy, liberalism, and cosmopolitanism, and his work has been a major influence on subsequent political theory, legal theory, continental philosophy, and political theology, but its value and significance are controversial, mainly due to his intellectual support for and active involvement with Nazism." [Wiki]*

I think it’s very clear to all of the forum readers where you get your “vital and original ideas” from. A Nazi philosopher.

As though it’s a surprise to anyone who’s been reading your posts for the last few years!

@fmf said
How did Carl Schmitt's "nuanced" "friend/enemy distinction" affect his stance on Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka, Majdanek and Auschwitz-Birkenau?

I assume he was, like most Germans, unaware of any program for mass extermination.

But you could've guessed that.

@divegeester said
*"Carl Schmitt (11 July 1888 – 7 April 1985) was a conservative German jurist, political theorist, and prominent member of the Nazi Party. Schmitt wrote extensively about the effective wielding of political power. He is noted as a critic of parliamentary democracy, liberalism, and cosmopolitanism, and his work has been a major influence on subsequent political theo ...[text shortened]... opher.

As though it’s a surprise to anyone who’s been reading your posts for the last few years!

I guess I'm more like Hannah Arrendt or Marxist philosopher Žižek in the sense that I don't have any of the anti-intellectual spirit. I'm ready to read anyone. Free inquiry.

I have always figured that, growing up in a society where abortion is common, and in a world where women are aborted more than men, and where intelligent creatures are raised in hellish conditions to be slaughtered for food, I'm already to some degree part of a society that is quite guilty.

The human condition is this way.

@philokalia said
I assume he was, like most Germans, unaware of any program for mass extermination.

And presumably, this assumption on your part is good enough for you because you say you don't have any anti-intellectual spirit and because you are opposed to abortion. What did Carl Schmitt have to say about the Holocaust during the 40 years he lived on for after the war?

@fmf said
And presumably, this assumption on your part is good enough for you because you say you don't have any anti-intellectual spirit and because you are opposed to abortion. What did Carl Schmitt have to say about the Holocaust during the 40 years he lived on for after the war?

I am not sure.

Someone wrote a book claiming that it was pivotal to his views.

However, Nazis didn't agree, and the article on a Jewish website about him doesn't cite any information that would seem to compound some position of him as a lifelong anti-Semite or encourager of genocide:

Schmitt presented himself as a radical anti-semite and also was the chairman of a law teachers' convention in Berlin in October 1936, where he demanded that German law be cleansed from the “Jewish spirit” (“jüdischem Geist&rdquo😉; nevertheless, two months later, in December, the SS publication “Das schwarze Korps” accused Schmitt of being an opportunist and called his anti-semitism a mere mock-up, citing earlier statements in which he criticised the Nazi's racial theories. After this, Schmitt soon lost all of his prominent offices, and retreated from his position as a leading Nazi jurist, although he remained as a professor in Berlin.

In 1945, Schmitt was captured by the American forces; after spending more than a year in an internment camp, he returned to his home town of Plettenberg following his release in 1946. Despite being isolated in the scientific and political community, he continued to study international law from the 1950s on.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/carl-schmitt

@philokalia said
I am not sure.

You are inspired by an abjectly anti-semitic, intellectual supporter of Nazism who was a prominent and active member of the German Nazi party but... you are not sure what his 40-year post-war silence on the issue of the Holocaust means and... gosh... he is your go-to guy on why "dehumanization" is a no-no? Are there any other Nazi thinkers you are inspired by, or is he the only one?

@philokalia said
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/carl-schmitt

But this is the wikipedia article that has already been quoted.

A few posts ago you said: "You should read the book and not jump to wrong conclusions based on a Wikipedia article."

And here you are saying "Someone wrote a book..." and posting a clip from wikipedia.

Was this someone "who wrote a book" a Nazi that you are inspired by in the same way you are inspired by Carl Schmitt?

Or does that fact that you claim you "don't have any the anti-intellectual spirit" mean that it doesn't matter?

@fmf said
Or does that fact that you claim you "don't have any the anti-intellectual spirit" mean that it doesn't matter?

Ask Marxist philosopher Zizek, classical liberal Hannah Arrendt, or lefty postmodernist Jacques Derrida why they read Schmitt and took some influence from them.

It was because he was an interesting thinker that interpreted the early 20th century differently from others, and had insights into the nature of democracy and the political.

So, I would never apologize for reading anybody and thinking anything they had to say was insightful.

For the exact same reason, I upvoted your first post here and have never changed it to a downvote in spite of the fact that, in many other places, I greatly disagree with you and even believe that your behavior is lackluster.

I think everyone understands why this is a good way to approach things -- and if they do not, it is an indictment against themselves.

@fmf said
And here you are saying "Someone wrote a book..." and posting a clip from wikipedia.

You ar wrong -- I posted an excerpt just now from the Jewish Virtual Library. Earlier, of course, wikipedia was referenced by me, but only to present a list of people influenced by Schmitt.

It is far different from actively misinterpreting Schmitt while trying to extrapolate incorrectly from a Wikipedia article, as opposed to reading Schmitt.

@philokalia said
Ask Marxist philosopher Zizek, classical liberal Hannah Arrendt, or lefty postmodernist Jacques Derrida why they read Schmitt and took some influence from them.

Once again, are there any other Nazi thinkers you are inspired by or is Carl Schmitt the only one?

@philokalia said
You ar wrong -- I posted an excerpt just now from the Jewish Virtual Library.

Look again. The excerpt from the Jewish Virtual Library is simply an excerpt from Wikipedia. Look below the text.

Hey, whatever, it's the kind of mistake Giorgio Agamben, Hannah Arendt, Walter Benjamin, Susan Buck-Morss, Jacques Derrida, Jürgen Habermas, Waldemar Gurian, Jaime Guzmán, Reinhart Koselleck, Friedrich Hayek, Chantal Mouffe, Antonio Negri, Leo Strauss, Adrian Vermeule, and Slavoj Žižek could have made,