Essence of the Tantric Path

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
You reckon it matters what the words are? Doesn't seem to make a difference to the meditation.

Owah. Tagoo. Sayam.

3 times fast.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
You reckon it matters what the words are? Doesn't seem to make a difference to the meditation.

To the person who is doing the Sadhana( Penance ),it is important that his mind quitens in a reasonable time, it is made to turn away from external distractions and its attention is focussed on the deity(symbol of God). This is best done by chanting the Mantra given by the Guru. This Mantra is simply a salutation to either Shiva or Vishnu,both being names of God. The chanting of the Siddha Mantra(proven or time tested Mantra) exactly as prescribed by the Guru will make it easy for the Sadhak. There is no bar to just let the thoughts whirl around till the mind tires or Sadhak goes to sleep or his hands/feet go to sleep. Such antics will bring no result. Why don't you ask some yoga practitioner and try yourself?

Originally posted by JS357
Owah. Tagoo. Sayam.

3 times fast.

Instead of taking potshots at the techniques developed long ago,with the interests of the Sadhak in mind, please consult your nearest yoga practitioner and try yourself.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Instead of taking potshots at the techniques developed long ago,with the interests of the Sadhak in mind, please consult your nearest yoga practitioner and try yourself.

That's a pretty gentle potshot by this forum's standards.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Dear Sonhouse, any Sadhana (Penance) done with an aim to propitiate God,to move closer to God,to realise God (progressively) is concerned with calming your mind, turning the mind away from external distractions, focus it on your Deity(symbol of God) and chant your Mantra. The aim is spiritual and not corporeal. If the Sadhana results in side effects such ...[text shortened]... tices, is common in western minds and often results in sneering comments, not really expected.

I hope you are not thinking I was giving sneering comments. I had no such intention in mind. It was a question I wondered about. I did not mean to intend that as an insult. Not sure how you got to that state of mind. Of course I am ignorant of eastern traditions, but not totally. I lived in Thailand for 3 years, Israel for 4, and other places. I lived with a buddhist monk, he was a cool dude, with a couple of nice babies. He didn't speak much english so I didn't get much about his religion, just noticed he was indeed a gentle soul.

And of course that does not give me any pull with Hinduism, just wanted to say I am not just another sightless american and meant no insult with my questions. I get the feeling you thought I was saying in effect, show me the results if you expect ME to believe it. Not my thought at all. It was genuine curiosity.
You seem easy to anger. Is that a result of the bias you feel shown to you by other Americans?

Originally posted by JS357
That's a pretty gentle potshot by this forum's standards.

You have tried to cut a tasteless joke at the expense of a system of Penance which has been developed over centuries by sages only out of an abiding interest to help fellow humans out of their fears,griefs,loneliness etc. If this had been done by an uncouth egoist savage,it might just have escaped condemnation but not from a civilised person.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I hope you are not thinking I was giving sneering comments. I had no such intention in mind. It was a question I wondered about. I did not mean to intend that as an insult. Not sure how you got to that state of mind. Of course I am ignorant of eastern traditions, but not totally. I lived in Thailand for 3 years, Israel for 4, and other places. I lived with ...[text shortened]... You seem easy to anger. Is that a result of the bias you feel shown to you by other Americans?

I have nothing against individuals,whether they are americans or others. What did upset me was that the system of Yoga was being equated with a health club. Ramakrishna Paramhans whom many deem to be an incarnation of God in modern times died of cancer and Swami Vivekananda was a severe diabetic. Both were Yogis having reached the pinnacle of liberation that is possible in humans. They simply did not care for their bodies because they were deep into upliftment of others. Hindu saintly and mystic tradition simply ignores bodily afflictions.

Originally posted by Taoman
...... simplicity, while important, especially for initiates or beginners, can become dry and fruitless, with an "Is that all there is?, type of feeling. It is, of course not all there is, for the Greater is never like that - we are talking about the Source of all existence here, not the local mayor. The complexity of That Ineffable One is endless; look at ...[text shortened]... and fulfilling. Like all polarities, simplicity and complexity are all part of the Greater.

Hi Taoman and rvsakhadeo,

I last posted in this Forum in August 2009 (I checked!) Since then, I hope that I have gotten at least a little wiser and a lot less judgemental...

This thread, and in particular this paragraph caught my eye. I can totally identify with it in my journey. I have also had experiences where I have been - sometimes for moments all too fleeting - intensely alive and fully aware of my surroundings.

As a Christian for most of my life, I have lately come to the realisation that Christ is bigger than Christianity. I am now deeply ashamed of my harsh criticism of opposing views, and an abhorrence for the self-righteous attitude of knowing it all.

Even Paul said that on this side of the curtain we can never know it all...

Welcome, brothers. We are pilgrims on the same quest.

CJ

re the forms of mantra...

Intention of the heart is prior to verbal correctness,as mentioned. But in the deeper appreciation of mantra use in meditation, it is helpful to link into the fuller understanding of the actual words in Sanskrit and I find it also a "linking" to the wider community by seeking to use the traditional words - but not slavishly always.

Freedom, "svantrya" is also a big word in Trika Shaivism and expressing one's freedom, aligning it with the Divine freedom within, is allowed in my understanding, providing one's intention is there. I use both the traditional and my own "heart mantra".

Hindu mantra is often with the use of mala beads (also used in Buddhist chanting).
They usually have 108 beads, or a subdivisor of that number, 9,18,27 etc.
There are significances in the number 108 and the number 9.

I have found completing the "mala" gives sufficient time for the mind to settle and experience more fully the various effects of mantra, including arousal of devotional closeness and worship of That from whom we all arise.

I know it should grammatically be "That from which..", but using "whom" is my freedom expressing itself deliberately. It covers both the impersonal and the personal aspect of the "MAHA", the Great, so great it cannot be fully encompassed by any words.)

A thought:
If one does not feel accepted in the presence of one's concept of the Highest, something is missing, or being missed.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
You have tried to cut a tasteless joke at the expense of a system of Penance which has been developed over centuries by sages only out of an abiding interest to help fellow humans out of their fears,griefs,loneliness etc. If this had been done by an uncouth egoist savage,it might just have escaped condemnation but not from a civilised person.

Someone was questioning whether the words count. I tested that.

Originally posted by CalJust
Hi Taoman and rvsakhadeo,

I last posted in this Forum in August 2009 (I checked!) Since then, I hope that I have gotten at least a little wiser and a lot less judgemental...

This thread, and in particular this paragraph caught my eye. I can totally identify with it in my journey. I have also had experiences where I have been - sometimes for moments all ...[text shortened]... rtain we can never know it all...

Welcome, brothers. We are pilgrims on the same quest.

CJ

Swap you a BIG smile for a BIG hug.
🙂)))

Originally posted by Taoman
. It is in distinction to the other major path within many religions wherein the world is sought to be ignored, turned away from, and "renounced" in order to see beyond its distractions and "impurities".

This is a facinating thought. The world should be ignored due to its "impurities"? Who decides what is an impurity and is not? Who decides what is "real" and what is not?

Originally posted by whodey
This is a facinating thought. The world should be ignored due to its "impurities"? Who decides what is an impurity and is not? Who decides what is "real" and what is not?

Yes. And the way of avoidance of the "impure world" doesn't work, because of the reasons you mention.
Rejection and condemnation never healed anything, never made anything whole again.
Being forced to a "good" way by the threat of rejection and punishment works at a very primitive level, of perhaps containment and protection, but does not win the heart usually.

Pride of one's "good" is "bad". Acknowledging one's failure is a very high "good", which could not be if you were never "bad". Acceptance of all sides of one's self the poor and the better, is the first step upwards. inner conflict against ourselves keeps us frozen. Guilt is fruitless. What will loving nice people achieve, or hating bad people?

"For and against,
For and against,
For and against,

Going nowhere."

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
To the person who is doing the Sadhana( Penance ),it is important that his mind quitens in a reasonable time, it is made to turn away from external distractions and its attention is focussed on the deity(symbol of God). This is best done by chanting the Mantra given by the Guru. This Mantra is simply a salutation to either Shiva or Vishnu,both being names ...[text shortened]... . Such antics will bring no result. Why don't you ask some yoga practitioner and try yourself?

Years ago when I first took up meditation I was give a mantra by a guru. Later I learned another and tried that out too and it also worked. Then I made some up myself, and they all seemed to work too. Mind, I don't see it as being a religious thing really.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Years ago when I first took up meditation I was give a mantra by a guru. Later I learned another and tried that out too and it also worked. Then I made some up myself, and they all seemed to work too. Mind, I don't see it as being a religious thing really.

What do you mean that the Mantra worked? Did you chant it purely for getting relief from mental stress? If so, even ' I and my mummy are one ' will do the trick,as some pschychiatrists think. We are not talking about remedies for illnesses but the search for Truth/ God/Ultimate Reality which is what Yogic Sadhana is about. It is a penance prescribed in Hindu Spiritualism. Nothing to do with religion.