1. Melbourne, Australia
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    30 Jun '11 12:58
    Arising from the Tantric Shaivite view (a non-dualist imaginal form within Hinduism), there is a diagrammatic representation, a "yantra", of the Highest, or "Shiva" that is a complex but highly symbolic geometric design, known as the "Sri Yantra", with nine triangles superimposed, five pointed down, (shakti aspect), four pointed up (shiva aspect) and a central small dot called the "bindu". This represents the Source of Mind/Awareness, and of all manifestation. It may be linked to the non-dimensional "Singularity" of modern science. It is a powerful focus for meditation and devotion.

    Tantricism, with relative froms found in both Hinduism and Buddhism, is a path to "Recogniton, "Realisation", or "Liberation (Moksha)", that seeks to develop and experience awareness of the Transcendent within the manifestation of life, in all of its aspects and polarities. It is in distinction to the other major path within many religions wherein the world is sought to be ignored, turned away from, and "renounced" in order to see beyond its distractions and "impurities".

    Many would only know of the popularised focus on sexuality within Tantricism, but it includes all the senses and our awareness and response to such. The symbolisms of each aspect of the Sri Yantra are many and complex and beyond an already long forum post, but the passage below gives a taste of the meanings and awareness that can arise in living the Tantric view, symbolised so beautifully by this and many other yantras.

    It arises in the article's description of a surrounding element of the design, circular patterns of lotus petals. (* "shaktis" can be simply seen as vibrationally manifested energetic aspects that constitute our existence.)

    "...Eight petals

    The shaktis of the eight petals are speech, holding, walking, excreting, pleasure, abandoning-or-rejection, concentration-or-acceptance and detachment. They link in closely with the 16 petals; if you view the practitioner as the one who explores and experiences and the 16 petals as the means of exploration, the 8 petals could be viewed as that which is explored and experienced.
    A notion I have come across not infrequently was that 'the 16 petals veil our existence, blind our spiritual sight and keep us spellbound in our infatuation with ourselves'. This defines our senses and sensual selves as something to be overcome and cast aside. I believe, rather, that via our senses our experience becomes true experience, being alive, awake and aware. Everything around us is connected through and with us.
    This summer I went to Slovenia for a week on a Karate training holiday. In the mornings we would train and in the afternoons we were free to do whatever we wanted to do. I ended up exploring the landscape a lot. One day I came to a place in the forest where two mountain streams met, a crossroads of rivers, clear and icy cold water, the streams murmuring and gurgling, swirling and rushing - incredible shades of translucent turquoise. I stayed there for two hours, safely surrounded by mossy trees and painted the scene until the rain stopped me.

    It was on my way back, climbing up a canyon through a short stretch of wood and coming out onto a meadow, the Julian Alps in the background that I suddenly was startled by the intensity of colours, the sharpness of every detail. Everything was clear, bright, a multitude of detail forming a complexity of sparkling beauty. Every sense in my body seemed to have awakened and I cherished details that previously I had not noticed and I thrilled in the totality of it.
    Everything felt alive, significant, meaningful, connected and I suddenly understood that this was Sri Yantra, the totality of experience, the senses chiming together all at once into awake awareness. It wasn't the world that had changed but my perception of it.
    So we have a somewhat puritan worldview on one side that the senses are something to be overcome vs. a tantric worldview that embraces the senses and relishes in them. 'Transcending limitations of physical self' vs. being alive in the physical body and living in it rather than fighting it.

    Sri Yantra is about being human, not about stripping away our humanness and turning into elevated spiritual ascetic beings, about turning 'other' than who we are.
    It is about accepting who we are, seeing where we are in life, what limitations there are in terms of conditioning and body armouring, accepting ourselves with compassion and from that place change can occur if we truly so wish. Embracing the senses and embracing one's limitations and humanity."

    The author is Maria Strutz and the link is...
    http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/tt_sriyantra.html
  2. Joined
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    01 Jul '11 00:13
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Arising from the Tantric Shaivite view (a non-dualist imaginal form within Hinduism), there is a diagrammatic representation, a "yantra", of the Highest, or "Shiva" that is a complex but highly symbolic geometric design, known as the "Sri Yantra", with nine triangles superimposed, five pointed down, (shakti aspect), four pointed up (shiva aspect) and a centr ...[text shortened]... ink is...
    http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/tt_sriyantra.html
    And they say that those who believe in God are delusional.

    Sorry Taoman. I enjoy our encounters in this forum because you are one of the few that remain objective whenever I reply to you. I appreciate that. We keep the lines of communication open by respecting each other's person while questioning the validity of what is posted.

    Unfortunately sometimes things need to sound negative. To be brief, by comparison, the view expressed in your post and that view expressed in the Bible are completely incompatible. The Bible speaks in simple terms even a child can understand, and is accessible to anyone and everyone. But the stuff of which you speak is for an elite class of the educated, and is inaccessible to the poor in spirit.

    The message of the Bible brings hope and salvation to all who simply believe, but that of which you speak is out of the reach of the common man.

    They say the Bible was written by man and full of myths and fables. The Bible receives much criticism in this forum as do those who believe its precepts. I will be vilified for responding this way as well. But no one it seems will say anything to the contrary about what you posted. Why is that? Isn't it obvious?
  3. Subscribersonhouse
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    01 Jul '11 03:15
    Originally posted by josephw
    And they say that those who believe in God are delusional.

    Sorry Taoman. I enjoy our encounters in this forum because you are one of the few that remain objective whenever I reply to you. I appreciate that. We keep the lines of communication open by respecting each other's person while questioning the validity of what is posted.

    Unfortunately sometimes ...[text shortened]... seems will say anything to the contrary about what you posted. Why is that? Isn't it obvious?
    It may be because they are trying to actually improve the quality of their existence, breathing in the beauty inherent in our jewel like planet instead of causing war after war over religion between Islam, Christianity and Judaism, all worshiping the same god but fighting multi-millennial wars, each claiming to worship the REAL god.

    Hinduism at least is trying to find our own way into the world of spirituality on our own lights, forsaking violence for the most part.

    I had an experience just like the author of that piece, saw a river, the Kern river near lake Tahoe, a brilliant turquoise broiling thing of exquisite beauty with house sized mica flecked white rocks sparkling in the sun. Standing there looking at that incredible beauty I was transfixed, colors were brighter, the air was magic. Something touched me that day but it was not a god, it was the Earth speaking.

    I think Hindu's are searching for experiences like that which leads to deeper understanding in an emotional way of the world around us.
  4. Melbourne, Australia
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    01 Jul '11 11:281 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    And they say that those who believe in God are delusional.

    Sorry Taoman. I enjoy our encounters in this forum because you are one of the few that remain objective whenever I reply to you. I appreciate that. We keep the lines of communication open by respecting each other's person while questioning the validity of what is posted.

    Unfortunately sometimes ...[text shortened]... seems will say anything to the contrary about what you posted. Why is that? Isn't it obvious?
    Greetings josephw, I think your point about simplicity versus complexity is a valid one to discuss.

    Tantric pathways are not for all, and do not seek to be for all. In fact they are often practiced semi-secretly and put in terms that are deliberately difficult to understand, without effort to "learn the lingo", for fear that the esoteric knowledge and practices, with their associated empowerings should too easily come into untrained and unwise hands and bring harm instead of blessing. Unless there is guidance, the ways of tantra can also be misinterpreted and misrepresented.

    I have sought simplicityand known it, but simplicity, while important, especially for initiates or beginners, can become dry and fruitless, with an "Is that all there is?, type of feeling. It is, of course not all there is, for the Greater is never like that - we are talking about the Source of all existence here, not the local mayor. The complexity of That Ineffable One is endless; look at a human cell and how it works or the profundities of the arts of mathematics or scientific technology. The joys of discovery will never end and that is good.

    Comprehending, expereincing the Intangible can require similar persistence and efforts, if not more, if that is what one seeks. If not, then that is ok too. You are no lesser for seeking the simpler way at present , anymore than I am somehow" better" for exploring the deeper. Each has their uniqeness to experience. Tantric ways exhorts us to expereince our living to the full, fulfilling our own nature in the fullest of awareness of here, and beyond here.
    It is not the only way to do that.

    However, I can imagine forms of Tantra based on the Christian "imaginal representing realm" also. But one would have to be in more of an artistic, poetic, musical, romantic mode of awareness rather than one that was more in the mode of reading law books and scientific or theological argument. These attitudes actually limit devotion and experiencing transcendent states or heightened expansive awareness of whatever "now" you happen to be in.

    The simple is good, but the more profound and more complex, can be very rewarding, expansive and fulfilling. Like all polarities, simplicity and complexity are all part of the Greater.

    This is as I understand it, at present.

    Warm regards to you.

    [edit typographical]
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    01 Jul '11 18:55
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Greetings josephw, I think your point about simplicity versus complexity is a valid one to discuss.

    Tantric pathways are not for all, and do not seek to be for all. In fact they are often practiced semi-secretly and put in terms that are deliberately difficult to understand, without effort to "learn the lingo", for fear that the esoteric knowledge and pr ...[text shortened]... This is as I understand it, at present.

    Warm regards to you.

    [edit typographical]
    I pray you and yours are well Taoman.

    Thank you for your kind reply. I understand where you're coming from. Within the pages of the Bible are also "hidden" spiritual truths not so easily understood by the "beginner".

    Early this morning I heard an interview with a Buddhist from Siam. I don't recall his name. Perhaps you are familiar with who I'm talking about. The man spoke of the east and the west, and the effects of the west on the Asian culture. I found myself agreeing with most of what he said. He spoke of how capitalism and greed is not only hurting his nation materially, but it is preventing the poor from experiencing enlightenment.

    I believe in that man's cause. He is fighting for the liberation of the minds of his people as well as freedom from a dictatorial monarchy, and paying the price. There are countless men and women around the world working both independently and in concert to alleviate pain and suffering, and to bring knowledge and enlightenment.

    We can work together to make the world a better place. And to give people the opportunity to worship and live as their own conscience dictates. I don't believe it's folks like you and me that are creating divisions. Here in America we fight and die so that the people can be free to believe as they wish. I wish it were universal.

    Peace
  6. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
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    03 Jul '11 11:06
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Arising from the Tantric Shaivite view (a non-dualist imaginal form within Hinduism), there is a diagrammatic representation, a "yantra", of the Highest, or "Shiva" that is a complex but highly symbolic geometric design, known as the "Sri Yantra", with nine triangles superimposed, five pointed down, (shakti aspect), four pointed up (shiva aspect) and a centr ...[text shortened]... ink is...
    http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/tt_sriyantra.html
    Sorry for posting somewhat late. Tantra,also known as Agam, is an important part of the Hindu Spiritualism. It means ' the means of getting protected '. It's alternative meaning is ' something that expands the knowledge of self.' Yantra means a mechanism, a contrivance, a machine. Tantra includes the subjects of creation and destruction of the Universe,ways of worshipping God,religion,day to day affairs,charity etc. Abhinavgupt, Kshemaraj even adya( first) Shankaracharya were some of the exponents. Sir John Woodroffe(aka Arthur Avalon) has written a book on Tantra.
  7. Melbourne, Australia
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    03 Jul '11 14:49
    Originally posted by josephw
    I pray you and yours are well Taoman.

    Thank you for your kind reply. I understand where you're coming from. Within the pages of the Bible are also "hidden" spiritual truths not so easily understood by the "beginner".

    Early this morning I heard an interview with a Buddhist from Siam. I don't recall his name. Perhaps you are familiar with who I'm talking ...[text shortened]... hat the people can be free to believe as they wish. I wish it were universal.

    Peace
    Yes indeed, this is what is needed. There will always be difference of cultures and belief. But any nation or religion that sets man against man, without just cause of protection of the innocent, or upholding the healing good or resisting malicious or destructive intent, deserves to be isolated and vigorously opposed, in my opinion-not with a view to punishment. but for eventual recognition, remorse and healing.

    The one great mark of the Divine is not the times of disintegration, but the completion of wholeness, symbolised, in one way, by the joint embrace of physical union, which at its highest, is also filled with deep devotion to each other. Such oneness is demonstrated and meditated upon in the systems of Tantra

    I believe you you have a good hold on your faith josephw, which is a good one, when held with the balance and compassion that you demonstrate, similar to the teachings and life of its Founder and Master, Jesus of Nazareth.

    The United States of America, like all nations, needs desperately a return to fearless honesty and correct judgements by which ever party, without small-minded conivings. We must learn again to discriminate for ourselves rather than be led like sheep by media and self-serving corporate powers.This is sorely needed not only for your nation and mine, but for the whole world at this time.

    This is as I understand it at present.

    Namaste.

    (This Indian greeting basically says "I bow to your form", To me, this not so subtly implies that there is much more than the exterior form of our lives).
  8. Melbourne, Australia
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    03 Jul '11 15:19
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    Sorry for posting somewhat late. Tantra,also known as Agam, is an important part of the Hindu Spiritualism. It means ' the means of getting protected '. It's alternative meaning is ' something that expands the knowledge of self.' Yantra means a mechanism, a contrivance, a machine. Tantra includes the subjects of creation and destruction of the Universe,w ...[text shortened]... some of the exponents. Sir John Woodroffe(aka Arthur Avalon) has written a book on Tantra.
    I too am late to the SF at times due to circumstances, Its all a bit like CC, goes at its own pace, sometimes fast and sometimes slow.

    Tantra in Kashmir (Trika) Shaivism is endlessly rich in symbolisms, even down to its Sanskrit vowels and consonants and their forms. At first I found it overwhelming and confusing. It does require study to begin to understand its intent, And it does require active practice in Tantric meditative "sadhana" to appreciate its very powerful aspects.

    A guide is preferably needed, but often they are not available in the West, and the writings must suffice. The "Vijnana Bhairava Tantra" was what initially captivated my attention and started to clarify the meanings in the Tantric approach. Acharya Abhinavagupta is rightly emminent among the Hindu sages.

    Modern New Age approaches only often scratch the surface, which is often little more than how to have better sex. This is valid enough, making congress richer in meaning, something often lacking. But sex is but one aspect of Tantric systems as you are no doubt aware.

    Cheers.
  9. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
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    03 Jul '11 17:59
    Originally posted by Taoman
    I too am late to the SF at times due to circumstances, Its all a bit like CC, goes at its own pace, sometimes fast and sometimes slow.

    Tantra in Kashmir (Trika) Shaivism is endlessly rich in symbolisms, even down to its Sanskrit vowels and consonants and their forms. At first I found it overwhelming and confusing. It does require study to begin to underst ...[text shortened]... lacking. But sex is but one aspect of Tantric systems as you are no doubt aware.

    Cheers.
    Greetings from a fellow sadhak. Not of Tantra Shastra,though. I am, I hope,a particle of dust in the path of my Guru,who blessed me with the Mantra of Om Namah Shivay. For me, the path of Bhakti has been been ordained. Of course,there is no bar to reading the great books written by our numerous Saints and Seers like Adya Shankaracharya and others like Vivekananda, Ramatirtha et al and think over their grand sweeps through the mysteries of Agam and Nigam. That is how I happen to own a book by Shankaracharya titled Prapanchasar in original Sanskrit and translated in Marathi with detailed commentary in Marathi,my mother tongue. It consists of nothing but Mantras dealing with all aspects of Tantra and descriptions of various Yantras. How I wish I could translate it in English for advanced sadhakas like you! But I am neither qualified by training or experience. Even in Marathi it is tough going to understand the nuances. For you, I think the 3( and not 1) books by Sir John will have to do.
  10. Subscribersonhouse
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    03 Jul '11 18:14
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    Greetings from a fellow sadhak. Not of Tantra Shastra,though. I am, I hope,a particle of dust in the path of my Guru,who blessed me with the Mantra of Om Namah Shivay. For me, the path of Bhakti has been been ordained. Of course,there is no bar to reading the great books written by our numerous Saints and Seers like Adya Shankaracharya and others like Vi ...[text shortened]... to understand the nuances. For you, I think the 3( and not 1) books by Sir John will have to do.
    Have there been independent scientific studies done on the mental states of your discipline? That is to say, in elder masters, blood pressure lower than normal, stress indicators in blood, that kind of thing? Your religion strives to make things better here on Earth, right?

    I would hope your meditation and study would lead to measurable positive changes in adept's internal health markers.

    For instance, do your practitioners have longer lives? That kind of thing is what I am interested in, or do you strive for better lives within normal lifespans?
  11. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    03 Jul '11 22:271 edit
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    Greetings from a fellow sadhak. Not of Tantra Shastra,though. I am, I hope,a particle of dust in the path of my Guru,who blessed me with the Mantra of Om Namah Shivay. For me, the path of Bhakti has been been ordained. Of course,there is no bar to reading the great books written by our numerous Saints and Seers like Adya Shankaracharya and others like Vi ...[text shortened]... to understand the nuances. For you, I think the 3( and not 1) books by Sir John will have to do.
    I have the same mantra but say it like this" Om Shiva Namoa Shiva"
  12. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
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    04 Jul '11 09:39
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Have there been independent scientific studies done on the mental states of your discipline? That is to say, in elder masters, blood pressure lower than normal, stress indicators in blood, that kind of thing? Your religion strives to make things better here on Earth, right?

    I would hope your meditation and study would lead to measurable positive changes ...[text shortened]... of thing is what I am interested in, or do you strive for better lives within normal lifespans?
    Dear Sonhouse, any Sadhana (Penance) done with an aim to propitiate God,to move closer to God,to realise God (progressively) is concerned with calming your mind, turning the mind away from external distractions, focus it on your Deity(symbol of God) and chant your Mantra. The aim is spiritual and not corporeal. If the Sadhana results in side effects such as reduced b.p.etc.,well and good. While some experiments have been carried out on ' Hatha Yogis ' i.e.those who practice Yoga involving postures and breath control which have validated that practice of Hatha Yoga is good for health, Hindu spiritual tradition is concerned with far loftier goals than what could be easily achieved in a gym or health club. Ignorance of Hindu spiritualism,Hindu culture, Hindu Religion which is actually is a collection of cultural traditions and practices, is common in western minds and often results in sneering comments, not really expected.
  13. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
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    04 Jul '11 09:55
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I have the same mantra but say it like this" Om Shiva Namoa Shiva"
    I cannot say from where you have received this but the Mantra is not correctly spelt out. It has to be either ' om namah shivay ' or ' shivay namah ' or 'om namo bhagawate vasudeway'. Let me assure you that God is more concerned with what is the genuineness of your feelings for God and not the correctness of what you are chanting. But every detail helps.
  14. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    04 Jul '11 13:05
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    I cannot say from where you have received this but the Mantra is not correctly spelt out. It has to be either ' om namah shivay ' or ' shivay namah ' or 'om namo bhagawate vasudeway'. Let me assure you that God is more concerned with what is the genuineness of your feelings for God and not the correctness of what you are chanting. But every detail helps.
    Well it's been so long since I saw my guru that I remeber it that way. It works for me,thnx again 🙂
  15. Standard memberavalanchethecat
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    04 Jul '11 16:34
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    I cannot say from where you have received this but the Mantra is not correctly spelt out. It has to be either ' om namah shivay ' or ' shivay namah ' or 'om namo bhagawate vasudeway'. Let me assure you that God is more concerned with what is the genuineness of your feelings for God and not the correctness of what you are chanting. But every detail helps.
    You reckon it matters what the words are? Doesn't seem to make a difference to the meditation.
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