Eternal Life Query

Originally posted by Omnislash
Perhaps the inherantly contradictive nature of an entity whos purpose is to answer questions about something they can not know everything about, subsequently pressuring it to find answers it can not possibly know?

Hmmm maybe something like that ...

Room for doubt etc etc

I'm going to rec you, it is *something* like that which puzzles me about this

Originally posted by Omnislash
Perhaps the inherantly contradictive nature of an entity whos purpose is to answer questions about something they can not know everything about, subsequently pressuring it to find answers it can not possibly know?

Maybe you should open a thread on the issue of "Praying" ?

Originally posted by KneverKnight
Hmmm maybe something like that ...

Room for doubt etc etc

I'm going to rec you, it is *something* like that which puzzles me about this

If that is the case you can rec me too.

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Maybe you should open a thread on the issue of "Praying" ?

Good idea.

Originally posted by ivanhoe

If that is the case you can rec me too.

Look up.

Originally posted by KneverKnight
Hmmm
Or it could just be a tacit admission that they don't know everything about how God works.

There is something wrong here, can't put my finger on it.

Why do you assume something is wrong ?
Why don't you assume there is something you do not understand ?

Originally posted by KneverKnight
Look up.

A rec ! Thanks KnKn.

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Why do you assume something is wrong ?
Why don't you assume there is something you do not understand ?

Sometimes its the same question ...
Just a matter of phrasing.
EDIT I'm not sure what strikes me as odd about this yet, just a hunch.

Originally posted by KneverKnight
Sometimes its the same question ...
Just a matter of phrasing.
EDIT I'm not sure what strikes me as odd about this yet, just a hunch.

In the Russian Orthodox Church there exists a "Litany of Fervent Supplication".

The Gretchaninov (=composer) musical version is very beautiful.

Maybe this will get you an idea where you think "something is wrong".


Litany of Fervent Supplication (Russian Orthodox Church)

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Priest:
Let us say with all our soul and with all our mind, let us say:

People:
Lord, have mercy. (once)

Priest:
O Lord Almighty, the God of our Fathers, we beseech Thee, hear us and have mercy.

People:
Lord, have mercy. (once)

Priest:
Have mercy upon us, O God, according to Thy great goodness, we beseech Thee, hear us and have mercy.

People:
Lord, have mercy. (three times)

Priest:
Furthermore we pray for this country, its ruler, (title and name of the ruler), its people, civil authorities and armed forces.

People:
Lord, have mercy. (three times)

Priest:
Furthermore we pray for our Most Reverend Bishop (name of the diocesan bishop, or, if he be an archbishop or metropolitan, mention his rank and name), and for all the Orthodox bishops.

People:
Lord, have mercy. (three times)
Priest:
Furthermore we pray for our brethren: priests, deacons, monks and all other clergy, and for all our brethren in Christ.

People:
Lord, have mercy. (three times)

Priest:
Furthermore we pray for the blessed ever-memorable and most holy Orthodox patriarchs, for devout kings and rightbelieving queens, for the blessed founders of this holy church and for all our Orthodox fathers, brethren, and sisters departed from this life before us, and who rest in peace here and everywhere.

People:
Lord, have mercy. (three times)

Priest:
Furthermore we pray for mercy, life, peace, health, salvation, visitation, forgiveness and remission of the sins of the servants of God: benefactors, trustees, members and supporters of this holy church.

People:
Lord, have mercy. (three times)

(Here special petitions for the recovery of the sick, or any special needs for individual parishoners are offered.)

Priest:
Furthermore we pray for those who bring offerings and do good works in this holy and all-venerable church; for those who labor in its service, for the singers and for the people here present, who await from Thee great and abundant mercy.

People:
Lord, have mercy. (three times)

Priest (in a low voice):
O Lord our God, accept this fervent supplication from Thy servants, and have mercy upon us according to the multitude of Thy mercies; and send forth Thy compassion upon us and upon all Thy people, who await the rich mercy that cometh from Thee.

Priest:
For Thou art a merciful God and lovest mankind, and unto Thee we ascribe glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Neither and both, I suppose. 🙂

In the Christian tradition, you will live as basically a perfect form of your living self. My guess would be that it would be an ageless form, one free of physical and psychological infirmities.

Is it coherent to speak of an ageless self? Don't assume it is too quickly.

I mean, if I died, and was resurrected as I used to be, say at age of seven, it could be argued that I would no longer be fully myself, because a lot of who I subsequently became would have been negated.

Also, if I contracted Alzheimer's disease, and that negation process began naturally, then if I died, and was resurrected as I was just before I died, it could be argued that no self is being resurrected.

So, it would see that some form of me in my prime, would be the thing that would have to be resurrected, or something similar.

However, I am worried on this score. Have I any assurance that this resurrected person would in fact be me? Or would it be some new person who resembled me closely, but who was not actually me? Continuity of life would be disrupted in the resurrection process, reinforcing my worries.

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
Is it coherent to speak of an ageless self? Don't assume it is too quickly.

I mean, if I died, and was resurrected as I used to be, say at age of seven, it could be argued that I would no longer be fully myself, because a lot of who I subsequently became would have been negated.

Also, if I contracted Alzheimer's disease, and that negation proces ...[text shortened]... y me? Continuity of life would be disrupted in the resurrection process, reinforcing my worries.

First we need to differentiate between the mental self and the physical self.

I think the mental self would be one complete with all memories (including those we've forgotten) but none of the psychoses/neuroses/worries that plague it.

The physical self (body) would be ageless. How precisely, I cannot say.

Both of these are intelligible concepts, though we may not yet be able to completely understand them.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
First we need to differentiate between the mental self and the physical self.

I think the mental self would be one complete with all memories (including those we've forgotten) but none of the psychoses/neuroses/worries that plague it.

The physical self (body) would be ageless. How precisely, I cannot say.

Both of these are intelligible concepts, though we may not yet be able to completely understand them.

Sounds nice.

So, it's neither a younger me, or a current me, but a sort of cumulative me, with perfect memory, and bereft of mental ailments?

What facts, would you say, would make such an ideal me me?