1. DonationPawnokeyhole
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    03 Jun '05 17:011 edit
    For those of you who believe in life after death, I have a query.

    When I die, and my afterlife begins, do I continue on

    (a) as the person who died at the moment of death, or
    (b) as the person who died sometime before the moment of death?

    For example, suppose I contract Alzheimers, and gradually enter a vegetitive state before I eventually expire.

    Do I then enter heaven or hell or some other realm in a vegetative state? Or do I enter heaven or hell or some other realm in some pre-vegetative state? If so, when?

    The Bible is singularly silent on this topic. So, unless I am mistaken, is a lot of Christian dogma.

    What do you all think?
  2. Standard memberthesonofsaul
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    03 Jun '05 21:39
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    For those of you who believe in life after death, I have a query.

    When I die, and my afterlife begins, do I continue on

    (a) as the person who died at the moment of death, or
    (b) as the person who died sometime before the moment of death?

    For example, suppose I contract Alzheimers, and gradually enter a vegetitive state before I eventually ex ...[text shortened]... on this topic. So, unless I am mistaken, is a lot of Christian dogma.

    What do you all think?
    I do choose to have faith in an afterlife. I have no proof of this, though, so I can't argue it's existence. That aside, I try to keep my vision of an afterlife one that actually makes sense, or at least enough so I can be comfortable with the assumptions that must be made.

    So, now that all that is out of the way, my answer to your query: neither.

    When we die, even assuming that there is an afterlife, it is pretty obvious that we leave our bodies behind, and that means that everything associated with the body is also left behind. That means probably no memories, none of the expected lusts and desires, so it couldn't be said that whatever kind of entity or energy you would be in an afterlife, you most certainly would not be the person you left behind.

    ... --- ...
  3. Arizona, USA
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    04 Jun '05 01:51
    A question I have asked believers is: When a fetus is spontaneously aborted after a gestation of one month, what form does it take in Heaven? They typically answer that it will have the adult body that it would have had, minus any birth defects, scars etc.

    Does everybody in heaven have the face/hair/body of a supermodel, by the way?
  4. Joined
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    04 Jun '05 16:04
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    For those of you who believe in life after death, I have a query.

    When I die, and my afterlife begins, do I continue on

    (a) as the person who died at the moment of death, or
    (b) as the person who died sometime before the moment of death?

    For example, suppose I contract Alzheimers, and gradually enter a vegetitive state before I eventually ex ...[text shortened]... on this topic. So, unless I am mistaken, is a lot of Christian dogma.

    What do you all think?
    The Bible, which is God's Word, states that everyone who believes that Jesus Christ shed His blood on the cross for atonement of sins past, present & future & was resurrected will go to Heaven as long as they trust Jesus completely for salvation & eternal life. When Christians die they will receive a glorified resurrected body, a body that is perfect and will not have any imperfections that our natural body had prior to death. We will recognize relatives, friends, everyone that we knew prior to death of our natural body who are in Heaven. To help you know what the Bible says about salvation & eternal life you might want to read St. John Chapter 3 & 1st Corinthians 15.
  5. London
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    04 Jun '05 16:41
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    For those of you who believe in life after death, I have a query.

    When I die, and my afterlife begins, do I continue on

    (a) as the person who died at the moment of death, or
    (b) as the person who died sometime before the moment of death?
    Neither and both, I suppose. 🙂

    In the Christian tradition, you will live as basically a perfect form of your living self. My guess would be that it would be an ageless form, one free of physical and psychological infirmities.
  6. Arizona, USA
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    04 Jun '05 17:39
    Originally posted by johnchp3
    ... We will recognize relatives, friends, everyone that we knew prior to death of our natural body ...
    But will you recognize relatives who died as fetuses?

    I have read that more than half of all human pregnancies end with natural abortions. In most cases, it happens so early on that the woman never even knew she was pregnant. Is it fair to say that God runs the world's largest abortion mill? What is His motivation for doing this?
  7. London
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    04 Jun '05 17:47
    Originally posted by Paul Dirac
    Is it fair to say that God runs the world's largest abortion mill? What is His motivation for doing this?
    This question presupposes that God is responsible for those abortions.
  8. Donationbbarr
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    04 Jun '05 17:52
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    This question presupposes that God is responsible for those abortions.
    But this question doesn't:

    But will you recognize relatives who died as fetuses?

    What happens to aborted fetuses, do you think? Do they go to Heaven or Hell? Are they given a perfect body if they go to Heaven? If so, is it a perfect fetus body, or the perfect body of the adult they would have become had they not been aborted?
  9. Arizona, USA
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    04 Jun '05 18:03
    Originally posted by bbarr
    ... Are they given a perfect body if they go to Heaven? ...
    And what personality are they given, if the claim is true that people keep their distinct personalities in Heaven? Aren't personalities shaped by life experiences, at least to a degree? A fetus has no experience interacting with other people.
  10. Arizona, USA
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    04 Jun '05 18:391 edit
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    This question presupposes that God is responsible for those abortions.
    In Matthew chapter 10 it says:

    Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

    Who is the "you" Jesus is referring to here? How inclusive is he being? I think you are implicitly admitting that unborn children are not worth more to God than birds are.
  11. London
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    04 Jun '05 21:04
    Originally posted by bbarr
    But this question doesn't:

    [b]But will you recognize relatives who died as fetuses?


    What happens to aborted fetuses, do you think? Do they go to Heaven or Hell? Are they given a perfect body if they go to Heaven? If so, is it a perfect fetus body, or the perfect body of the adult they would have become had they not been aborted?[/b]
    With aborted foetuses, as with unbaptised children who die young, my answer would simply be - I don't know. It is my hope that God will show mercy towards them, but I simply do not know.

    What body will they have? A perfect human body. Adult or child or foetus? I would think - none of the above. I believe I used the word "ageless" in my previous post. I can't imagine what it would look like. In fact, I'm not even sure what kind of vision I would have then.
  12. London
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    04 Jun '05 21:06
    Originally posted by Paul Dirac
    And what personality are they given, if the claim is true that people keep their distinct personalities in Heaven? Aren't personalities shaped by life experiences, at least to a degree? A fetus has no experience interacting with other people.
    Once again, I don't think it would be "personality" in the solely psychiatric use of the term. Of course, our memories would be part of it - but not the whole. For want of a better way of formulating it, I would say that a person's personality in the afterlife would be his/her essence, or his/her soul.
  13. Donationbbarr
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    04 Jun '05 21:082 edits
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    With aborted foetuses, as with unbaptised children who die young, my answer would simply be - I don't know. It is my hope that God will show mercy towards them, but I simply do not know.

    What body will they have? A perfect hum In fact, I'm not even sure what kind of vision I would have then.
    Fair enough. Out of curiousity, suppose Ratzinger declared ex cathedra that aborted fetuses and unbaptized children were condemned to Hell. Would you find this morally troubling? If so, would you take it as evidence against papal infallibility?
  14. London
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    04 Jun '05 21:11
    Originally posted by Paul Dirac
    In Matthew chapter 10 it says:

    Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

    Who is the "you" Jesus is referring to here? How inclusive is he being? I think you are implicitly admitting that unborn children are not worth more to God than birds are.
    You didn't have to quote the Gospel on this; I wasn't arguing that God does not know what is happening (are you using the KJV? My NAB translation has "knowledge" for "will" in Mt 10:29) 🙂
  15. Arizona, USA
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    04 Jun '05 21:15
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    ... I wasn't arguing that God does not know what is happening...
    Yes, the good old KJ.

    So God sees that Satan wants to kill the fetus, but God chooses to allow it to happen?
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