Spirituality
03 Jun 05
03 Jun 05
1 edit
For those of you who believe in life after death, I have a query.
When I die, and my afterlife begins, do I continue on
(a) as the person who died at the moment of death, or
(b) as the person who died sometime before the moment of death?
For example, suppose I contract Alzheimers, and gradually enter a vegetitive state before I eventually expire.
Do I then enter heaven or hell or some other realm in a vegetative state? Or do I enter heaven or hell or some other realm in some pre-vegetative state? If so, when?
The Bible is singularly silent on this topic. So, unless I am mistaken, is a lot of Christian dogma.
What do you all think?
03 Jun 05
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeI do choose to have faith in an afterlife. I have no proof of this, though, so I can't argue it's existence. That aside, I try to keep my vision of an afterlife one that actually makes sense, or at least enough so I can be comfortable with the assumptions that must be made.
For those of you who believe in life after death, I have a query.
When I die, and my afterlife begins, do I continue on
(a) as the person who died at the moment of death, or
(b) as the person who died sometime before the moment of death?
For example, suppose I contract Alzheimers, and gradually enter a vegetitive state before I eventually ex ...[text shortened]... on this topic. So, unless I am mistaken, is a lot of Christian dogma.
What do you all think?
So, now that all that is out of the way, my answer to your query: neither.
When we die, even assuming that there is an afterlife, it is pretty obvious that we leave our bodies behind, and that means that everything associated with the body is also left behind. That means probably no memories, none of the expected lusts and desires, so it couldn't be said that whatever kind of entity or energy you would be in an afterlife, you most certainly would not be the person you left behind.
... --- ...
04 Jun 05
A question I have asked believers is: When a fetus is spontaneously aborted after a gestation of one month, what form does it take in Heaven? They typically answer that it will have the adult body that it would have had, minus any birth defects, scars etc.
Does everybody in heaven have the face/hair/body of a supermodel, by the way?
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeThe Bible, which is God's Word, states that everyone who believes that Jesus Christ shed His blood on the cross for atonement of sins past, present & future & was resurrected will go to Heaven as long as they trust Jesus completely for salvation & eternal life. When Christians die they will receive a glorified resurrected body, a body that is perfect and will not have any imperfections that our natural body had prior to death. We will recognize relatives, friends, everyone that we knew prior to death of our natural body who are in Heaven. To help you know what the Bible says about salvation & eternal life you might want to read St. John Chapter 3 & 1st Corinthians 15.
For those of you who believe in life after death, I have a query.
When I die, and my afterlife begins, do I continue on
(a) as the person who died at the moment of death, or
(b) as the person who died sometime before the moment of death?
For example, suppose I contract Alzheimers, and gradually enter a vegetitive state before I eventually ex ...[text shortened]... on this topic. So, unless I am mistaken, is a lot of Christian dogma.
What do you all think?
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeNeither and both, I suppose. 🙂
For those of you who believe in life after death, I have a query.
When I die, and my afterlife begins, do I continue on
(a) as the person who died at the moment of death, or
(b) as the person who died sometime before the moment of death?
In the Christian tradition, you will live as basically a perfect form of your living self. My guess would be that it would be an ageless form, one free of physical and psychological infirmities.
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by johnchp3But will you recognize relatives who died as fetuses?
... We will recognize relatives, friends, everyone that we knew prior to death of our natural body ...
I have read that more than half of all human pregnancies end with natural abortions. In most cases, it happens so early on that the woman never even knew she was pregnant. Is it fair to say that God runs the world's largest abortion mill? What is His motivation for doing this?
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by lucifershammerBut this question doesn't:
This question presupposes that God is responsible for those abortions.
But will you recognize relatives who died as fetuses?
What happens to aborted fetuses, do you think? Do they go to Heaven or Hell? Are they given a perfect body if they go to Heaven? If so, is it a perfect fetus body, or the perfect body of the adult they would have become had they not been aborted?
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by bbarrAnd what personality are they given, if the claim is true that people keep their distinct personalities in Heaven? Aren't personalities shaped by life experiences, at least to a degree? A fetus has no experience interacting with other people.
... Are they given a perfect body if they go to Heaven? ...
04 Jun 05
1 edit
Originally posted by lucifershammerIn Matthew chapter 10 it says:
This question presupposes that God is responsible for those abortions.
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
Who is the "you" Jesus is referring to here? How inclusive is he being? I think you are implicitly admitting that unborn children are not worth more to God than birds are.
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by bbarrWith aborted foetuses, as with unbaptised children who die young, my answer would simply be - I don't know. It is my hope that God will show mercy towards them, but I simply do not know.
But this question doesn't:
[b]But will you recognize relatives who died as fetuses?
What happens to aborted fetuses, do you think? Do they go to Heaven or Hell? Are they given a perfect body if they go to Heaven? If so, is it a perfect fetus body, or the perfect body of the adult they would have become had they not been aborted?[/b]
What body will they have? A perfect human body. Adult or child or foetus? I would think - none of the above. I believe I used the word "ageless" in my previous post. I can't imagine what it would look like. In fact, I'm not even sure what kind of vision I would have then.
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by Paul DiracOnce again, I don't think it would be "personality" in the solely psychiatric use of the term. Of course, our memories would be part of it - but not the whole. For want of a better way of formulating it, I would say that a person's personality in the afterlife would be his/her essence, or his/her soul.
And what personality are they given, if the claim is true that people keep their distinct personalities in Heaven? Aren't personalities shaped by life experiences, at least to a degree? A fetus has no experience interacting with other people.
04 Jun 05
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Originally posted by lucifershammerFair enough. Out of curiousity, suppose Ratzinger declared ex cathedra that aborted fetuses and unbaptized children were condemned to Hell. Would you find this morally troubling? If so, would you take it as evidence against papal infallibility?
With aborted foetuses, as with unbaptised children who die young, my answer would simply be - I don't know. It is my hope that God will show mercy towards them, but I simply do not know.
What body will they have? A perfect hum In fact, I'm not even sure what kind of vision I would have then.
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by Paul DiracYou didn't have to quote the Gospel on this; I wasn't arguing that God does not know what is happening (are you using the KJV? My NAB translation has "knowledge" for "will" in Mt 10:29) 🙂
In Matthew chapter 10 it says:
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
Who is the "you" Jesus is referring to here? How inclusive is he being? I think you are implicitly admitting that unborn children are not worth more to God than birds are.