Evolution question????

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
senses work independently and automatically. you don't have to 'know' anything to be able to see, to hear, to taste, etc.

The brain must know something to interpret the signals from the senses,
else it is useless and meaningless signals.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
senses work independently and automatically. you don't have to 'know' anything to be able to see, to hear, to taste, etc.

Actually the senses are far from independent.

The brain is constantly adapting and updating sensory input and modifying one sense based on input from another.

http://www.livescience.com/17046-plate-color-flavor-psychology.html

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/archive/podcastinfo.aspx?mid=1&pid=332

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
so a blind person can only walk in a spiral?

Anyone deprived of navigation aids will (barring obsticals) walk in a spiral.

However the blind (as opposed to someone simply blindfolded) use different
cue to navigation than sight.
Some can even utilise echo-location, and there is at least one guy good enough at it
that he can ride a bicycle while echo-locating.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Anyone deprived of navigation aids will (barring obsticals) walk in a spiral.

However the blind (as opposed to someone simply blindfolded) use different
cue to navigation than sight.
Some can even utilise echo-location, and there is at least one guy good enough at it
that he can ride a bicycle while echo-locating.

Amazing.
If you haven't seen it here it is
YouTube

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Amazing.
If you haven't seen it here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1QaCeosUmw

Yeah, and the guy I was thinking of was British so this is not some one off freak.
And it is indeed amazing.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Actually the senses are far from independent.

The brain is constantly adapting and updating sensory input and modifying one sense based on input from another.

http://www.livescience.com/17046-plate-color-flavor-psychology.html

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/archive/podcastinfo.aspx?mid=1&pid=332

So is this evolution or adaptation?

Originally posted by galveston75
So is this evolution or adaptation?

Both.
Evolution is the change of a species over time.
Adaptation is favourable change of a species over time as a result of environmental pressures.

Originally posted by galveston75
Soooooooo exactly how did this just happen for these amazing fish?

I don't know exactly, and apparently nobody else does either.
However, based on our knowledge of other traits of living things, it almost certainly followed this general pathway:
1. In one of their ancestors there existed the necessary components for navigation, (whether they use smell or magnetism or a combination).
2. Those components existed for some other reason, either they were useful for something else or were a side effect of something else useful. Or just occurred by chance in a few individuals.
3. The components proved useful to some individuals, and as a result of natural selection they improved, and spread through out the population.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Actually the senses are far from independent.

The brain is constantly adapting and updating sensory input and modifying one sense based on input from another.

http://www.livescience.com/17046-plate-color-flavor-psychology.html

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/archive/podcastinfo.aspx?mid=1&pid=332

i'm talking about senses being independent of what you know, not independent from information gathered by the senses! you can hear a train without knowing that it is a train. you can see a tree without knowing it is a tree, and so on, and if you can feel magnetic nuances, you don't have to know anything about cardinal directions.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Anyone deprived of navigation aids will (barring obsticals) walk in a spiral.

However the blind (as opposed to someone simply blindfolded) use different
cue to navigation than sight.
Some can even utilise echo-location, and there is at least one guy good enough at it
that he can ride a bicycle while echo-locating.

do you have any sources on the research done on this topic?

Originally posted by galveston75
So is this evolution or adaptation?

Our brains evolved, like the rest of us, but the day to day operation of the brain is not described by evolution, but neuroscience.

so neither.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
do you have any sources on the research done on this topic?

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17658

YouTube

Originally posted by googlefudge
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17658

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0gQWK737aU

interesting. however, i noticed a couple of things; 1st is that "most" not all of those tested walked in circles, and only a small number of people were tested.

i don't find the results too surprising. most people don't have training to navigate without their sense of vision and tend to ignore other cues.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Our brains evolved, like the rest of us, but the day to day operation of the brain is not described by evolution, but neuroscience.

so neither.

Well the thing I'm questioning about with any life that has this ability of homing or navagation on any level is at some point in the evolutionary process this did not exist. It couldn't have as it's a faily complicated ability to pull off and to be so accurate and something that we don't fullt understand. So how did this just accidently start in some basic life form ions ago?
In fact I'm curious why humans don't have this ability on a higher lever even then what a bird or fish has as we're supposed to be the most advanced species on earth so they say?

Originally posted by galveston75
Well the thing I'm questioning about with any life that has this ability of homing or navagation on any level is at some point in the evolutionary process this did not exist. It couldn't have as it's a faily complicated ability to pull off and to be so accurate and something that we don't fullt understand. So how did this just accidently start in some ba ...[text shortened]... bird or fish has as we're supposed to be the most advanced species on earth so they say?

I thought you'd studied evolution 'all your life'? Surely you should know the answers already?!