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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member dj2becker
    Hoarse whisperer
    01 Nov '17 06:38
    Atheists accuse Christians of blind faith but scientists rely on the rational intelligibility of the universe; the concept that the universe is rational is not proper science it's an assumption that requires faith - indeed based on atheism science in general would be impossible.
    Because even if, through observation, we can establish that the universe is intelligent, we have no scientific basis upon which to accept that that intelligibility is rational consequently orderly and therefore predictable; predictability being one of the three legs of basic science; predictability by definition excludes randomness.

    The minute a scientist, based on observation and taking measurements in the lab, makes predictions he's stepping into the realm of faith. Faith that tomorrow and the day after will be as predictable as yesterday. Indeed a scientist true to his atheistic worldview has no scientific reason to accept that tomorrow will not be random, which in turn will make it impossible for scientists to predict anything.

    Don't tell me that scientists don't have faith.
  2. 01 Nov '17 06:40
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Atheists accuse Christians of blind faith but scientists rely on the rational intelligibility of the universe; the concept that the universe is rational is not proper science it's an assumption that requires faith - indeed based on atheism science in general would be impossible.
    Because even if, through observation, we can establish that the universe is ...[text shortened]... possible for scientists to predict anything.

    Don't tell me that scientists don't have faith.
    What on earth are you on about.
  3. Standard member dj2becker
    Hoarse whisperer
    01 Nov '17 06:43
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    What on earth are you on about.
    Atheists put their faith in science. Do you agree or disagree?
  4. Standard member karoly aczel
    Console Peasant
    01 Nov '17 07:34
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Atheists accuse Christians of blind faith but scientists rely on the rational intelligibility of the universe; the concept that the universe is rational is not proper science it's an assumption that requires faith - indeed based on atheism science in general would be impossible.
    Because even if, through observation, we can establish that the universe is ...[text shortened]... possible for scientists to predict anything.

    Don't tell me that scientists don't have faith.
    Seems most of this post shows how poorly you comprehend science ... I'm sorry to say.
  5. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    01 Nov '17 07:39
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    ... predictability by definition excludes randomness.

    .
    Wrong.
    Quantum Mechanics
    Chaos Theory
    The roll of a die.

    All are random but predictions are made.
  6. 01 Nov '17 07:47 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Atheists put their faith in science. Do you agree or disagree?
    Disagree. Faith is a religious term and a spiritual phenomena.
  7. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    01 Nov '17 08:31
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Disagree. Faith is a religious term and a spiritual phenomena.
    Of course the obvious problem is that like most words in English "faith" has multiple meanings.
    Merriam-Webster gives FIVE.
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith
  8. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    01 Nov '17 08:32
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    Seems most of this post shows how poorly you comprehend science ... I'm sorry to say.
    And how poorly he comprehends English.
  9. 01 Nov '17 08:38
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Of course the obvious problem is that like most words in English "faith" has multiple meanings.
    Merriam-Webster gives FIVE.
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith
    Perhaps dj2becker will chose one of the definitions in order to move the conversation along with some degree of purpose.
  10. Standard member dj2becker
    Hoarse whisperer
    01 Nov '17 09:48
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Disagree. Faith is a religious term and a spiritual phenomena.
    Faith can also be defined as : "complete trust or confidence in someone or something."
  11. Standard member dj2becker
    Hoarse whisperer
    01 Nov '17 09:49
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    Seems most of this post shows how poorly you comprehend science ... I'm sorry to say.
    Your post doesn't seem to indicate that you know better now does it?
  12. Standard member avalanchethecat
    Not actually a cat
    01 Nov '17 09:51
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Atheists accuse Christians of blind faith but scientists rely on the rational intelligibility of the universe; the concept that the universe is rational is not proper science it's an assumption that requires faith - indeed based on atheism science in general would be impossible.
    Because even if, through observation, we can establish that the universe is ...[text shortened]... possible for scientists to predict anything.

    Don't tell me that scientists don't have faith.
    You are that kid hammering the square block into the circular hole. Yes, if you grind the corners off and pretend they were never there and hit it enough times with enough force you can force it through, but it isn't clever and it isn't right.
  13. Standard member karoly aczel
    Console Peasant
    01 Nov '17 14:25
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Your post doesn't seem to indicate that you know better now does it?
    Science challenge !!!!

    YOU up for it?
  14. 01 Nov '17 14:33 / 1 edit
    Science relies on faith (definition 1).

    Therefore science relies on faith (definition 2).

    Can we all agree that this argument is patently (definition 1) stupid (definition 2)?
  15. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    01 Nov '17 14:52 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Faith can also be defined as : "complete trust or confidence in someone or something."
    And in science, confidence till new evidence comes along changing the picture, enstilling a NEW confidence point. However you don't know how science works in the first place.

    They would say, the boing point of mercury is XX.X degrees C PLUS OR MINUS Y degrees) depending on other conditions, atmospheric pressure and so forth.

    So they almost always give a statistical qualifier.

    They NEVER say "Mercury has a boiling point of 124.89954923456 degrees C EXACTLY.

    So for instance, right now there is a quest going on about the speed of gravitational waves.

    It was not even known for sure there was such a thing till last year when they were unabiguously detected at LIGO and other gravitational wave detectors.

    So using that data they now get within a millionth of a percent of c as the speed of gravitational waves. They NEVER say 'gravity waves propogate EXACTLY at the speed of light, since they have not proven that, they know it is damn close but they won't be tied down to an exact number since it is not yet determined anywhere near as close as we have actually measured the speed of c which is different n vacuum than it is in air or water. Gravity waves don't give a crap about mere matter, they do their thing at their speed no matter what is in the way.

    The bottom line is you want to FORCE the concept of belief onto science and scientists based on the absolute fact you have NOTHING but faith to believe in with your religion so you and most of the rest of the religious set wants to peg science into the same corral which is simply not true. It is ONLY religous folk who want to force 'belief' in the science community.