False religion versus the gospel of Jesus Christ

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk

Religion lays heavy burdens on people. The Lord Jesus removes people's heavy burdens and gives them a light burden, which He helps them carry. (Mat 23:4, Mat 11:28-30, Psalm 55:22)

I appreciate this point and it is of particular interest to me.

In Matthew 11:28-3- Jesus encourages us to LEARN from Him.
This is more than stupendous.
We can be tutored by the Son of God!

What an honor, what a privilege that we can learn to live by Jesus as Jesus lived by His Father.

" As t he living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me." (John 6:57)

If we learn the secret to live a life blended with Christ it is like the power steering of an automobile. His yoke is EASY and His burden is LIGHT. The empowering grace flows into us from Christ AS the empowering grace flowed into Him from His Father. And we LEARN of Him.

It is a real honor and privileged. I can think of no higher honor and privilege.

" Come to Me all who toil and are burdened, and I will give you rest.

Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

For My yoke is easy and My burden is light." (Matt. 11:28-30)

Jesus Christ is the Divine "power steering" and the Divine "power breaks".

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
By 'everyone' I mean those on these threads who take the scriptures as divine authority.

Indeed. I am mighty pleased for you sir that you conveniently don't have to make any effort to be saved. This frees you up greatly to wag your finger at atheist do-gooders who are putting in the effort.

The bible passage I quoted earlier said that God's righteousness/law was written on the very heart of men. On what basis then do you argue that man without God makes up his own version of righteousness? Such an argument would appear to be unbiblical.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Part 2 of Religion versus the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Religion lays heavy burdens on people. The Lord Jesus removes people's heavy burdens and gives them a light burden, which He helps them carry. (Mat 23:4, Mat 11:28-30, Psalm 55:22)

Religion changes the outside of the person. The gospel changes the whole person starting at the heart. (Ma ...[text shortened]... sults in hypocrisy and lies. The gospel results in honesty and truth. (Mat 23:16-22, John 18:37)

Jesus Christ said, that the righteous is defined as those who:

- feed the hungry and thirsty
- clothe the naked
- help the sick and those in prison
- ie charitable works

These will enter the Kingdom of God.
Those who do not do these things are evil and sinful and will be cast into the lake of fire
So you can bray all you like. Jesus has spoken.
When that day comes you had better have your life in order and live according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
So far you keep calling your doctrine the Gospel of Jesus Christ but have quoted NOTHING He said.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Indeed. I am mighty pleased for you sir that you conveniently don't have to make any effort to be saved. This frees you up greatly to wag your finger at atheist do-gooders who are putting in the effort.

The bible passage I quoted earlier said that God's righteousness/law was written on the very heart of men. On what basis then do you argue that m ...[text shortened]... t God makes up his own version of righteousness? Such an argument would appear to be unbiblical.

1.How do you define 'righteousness'?

2. What basis do you as an atheist use to differentiate between that which is righteous and that which is unrighteous?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
1.How do you define 'righteousness'?

2. What basis do you as an atheist use to differentiate between that which is righteous and that which is unrighteous?

'When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law unto themselves. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness.' (Romans 2:14-16)

I define righteousness by the premise of my own conscience and it is this conscience that differentiates between what is righteous and what is unrighteous. - Although I am not religious, the above passage from Romans supports this line of reasoning and explicitly states that my conscience bears witness to the righteousness written on my heart by God. - In other words, If I live true to my conscience, which is God given whether I recognise it or not, then I am living a righteous life. (Not a sin free life, which is beyond any man's grasp, but a righteous life).

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
'When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law unto themselves. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness.' (Romans 2:14-16)

I define righteousness by the premise of my own conscience and it is th ...[text shortened]... a righteous life. (Not a sin free life, which is beyond any man's grasp, but a righteous life).

Would you say someone is righteous if they are true to their conscience 50% of the time, 100% of the time or somewhere in between?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke

I define righteousness by the premise of my own conscience and it is this conscience that differentiates between what is righteous and what is unrighteous. - Although I am not religious, the above passage from Romans supports this line of reasoning and explicitly states that my conscience bears witness to the righteousness written on my heart by God. - In other words, If I live true to my conscience, which is God given whether I recognise it or not, then I am living a righteous life. (Not a sin free life, which is beyond any man's grasp, but a righteous life).

This is an interesting comment.

Not to necessarily disagree, what you would you say about the verse 12 just above what you speak to:

"For as many as have sinned without the law shall also perish without the law, ..." (v.12a)

How does that fit into your musings on this chapter ?

Originally posted by sonship

I define righteousness by the premise of my own conscience and it is this conscience that differentiates between what is righteous and what is unrighteous. - Although I am not religious, the above passage from Romans supports this line of reasoning and explicitly states that my conscience bears witness to the righteousness written on my heart by God ...[text shortened]... out the law, ..." (v.12a)

How does that fit into your musings on this chapter ?[/b]

Actually, I think the preceding verses are even more powerful than those I quoted:

12 'All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.'

Verse 12 I believe relates to the subsequent verse about those who do not possess the law, doing instinctively what the law requires. - So those who perish are those sinners who 'do not' instinctively do what the law requires. (Those who are apart from the law).

Verse 13 is actually rather mind blowing. Believers are those who 'hear the law' but amazingly 'are not' the ones who are righteous in God's eyes. - No, the righteous are the ones who obey the law, the ones who instinctively do what the law requires, something the following verses makes clear is possible even for Gentiles and those without the law.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
'When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law unto themselves. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness.' (Romans 2:14-16)

I define righteousness by the premise of my own conscience and it is th ...[text shortened]... a righteous life. (Not a sin free life, which is beyond any man's grasp, but a righteous life).

So tell me in everything you do daily, are you ever filled with regrets over things you have
done? Since we are going to be judged by every word we have ever spoken, our lives will
be on FULL display is yours so pure you have nothing in it that you have done wrong or
when you acted in ways you know were wrong? If so I'd say your conscience will bear
witness of a sinless life, if not then there are things that require judgment or grace since
they will be dealt with one way or the other.

Originally posted by Rajk999
In the same lecture to the Galatians Paul warned the Christian saints that THEY MUST FOLLOW AFTER RIGHTEOUSNESS OTHERWISE THE END RESULT OF THEIR SIN IS THAT THEY WILL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD

[i]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulati ...[text shortened]... ternal
This is the Living Faith that Jesus looks for.
Those with Dead Faith will be destroyed.

You do not preach this stuff you actually preach against this!

"Jesus saves those of faith.
Faith means you believe the teachings of Jesus
If you believe in Jesus you WILL FOLLOW HIS COMMANDMENTS "

How can you in one side of your mouth say that those that believe in Jesus could be
condemn for sin, while at the same time say those that don't know Jesus, reject Jesus,
and be saved. You hold up believing in Jesus here while at other times reject that
requirement.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You do not preach this stuff you actually preach against this!

"Jesus saves those of faith.
Faith means you believe the teachings of Jesus
If you believe in Jesus you WILL FOLLOW HIS COMMANDMENTS "

How can you in one side of your mouth say that those that believe in Jesus could be
condemn for sin, while at the same time say those that don't know ...[text shortened]... and be saved. You hold up believing in Jesus here while at other times reject that
requirement.

You lack understanding. Go learn to read.

Originally posted by KellyJay
So tell me in everything you do daily, are you ever filled with regrets over things you have
done? Since we are going to be judged by every word we have ever spoken, our lives will
be on FULL display is yours so pure you have nothing in it that you have done wrong or
when you acted in ways you know were wrong? If so I'd say your conscience will bear
wit ...[text shortened]... e are things that require judgment or grace since
they will be dealt with one way or the other.

I did say old chap 'Not a sin free life, which is beyond any man's grasp, but a righteous life.'

All humans sin, myself included. My drive each day though is to be righteous (or more applicably to be a good person as possible) not to be actively sinful. - And as an atheist I of course don't anticipate a final judgement.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I did say old chap 'Not a sin free life, which is beyond any man's grasp, but a righteous life.'

All humans sin, myself included. My drive each day though is to be righteous (or more applicably to be a good person as possible) not to be actively sinful. - And as an atheist I of course don't anticipate a final judgement.

Would you say someone is righteous if they are true to their conscience 50% of the time, 100% of the time or somewhere in between?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke

Verse 13 is actually rather mind blowing. Believers are those who 'hear the law' but amazingly 'are not' the ones who are righteous in God's eyes. - No, the righteous are the ones who obey the law, the ones who instinctively do what the law requires, something the following verses makes clear is possible even for Gentiles and those without the law.

Let's look at it.

(For it is not hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (verse 13)

Amazing !
I like that too.

Now how do I square that with 3:20 ?

" ... every mouth may be stopped and all the world may fall under the judgment of God.

Because out of the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before Him; ..." (3:19,20)

I'm certainly part of the world. My self vindicating mouth is also shut.
How should I think about this concluding word of Paul before he launches on the subject of Justification - 3:21 - 31 ?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I did say old chap 'Not a sin free life, which is beyond any man's grasp, but a righteous life.'

All humans sin, myself included. My drive each day though is to be righteous (or more applicably to be a good person as possible) not to be actively sinful. - And as an atheist I of course don't anticipate a final judgement.

You believe one can sin and still be called righteous by God for the purpose of entering
into His Kingdom, why? What is the line between a sinner who is not righteous and one
who is in your opinion? I'm really curious as to your answer to my last question.