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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    08 Mar '18 04:37
    I like Isaiah 53 and think it’s clearly a Messianic prophecy, but I like several others.

    Here’s a good one:

    “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.”

    (Micah 5:2)

    Jesus Christ, of course, was born in Bethlehem.

    I think the book of Micah (in the Old Testament) was written 700+ years before Jesus Christ arrived on earth.
  2. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    08 Mar '18 05:04
    Here’s a good one from the book of Isaiah, which was written about 700 years before Jesus Christ’s arrival on earth:

    “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”

    (Isaiah 9:6-7)
  3. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    08 Mar '18 05:09
    Another one from the book of Isaiah:

    “And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

    And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;

    And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

    But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

    And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

    The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

    And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

    And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

    They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

    And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.”

    (Isaiah 11:1-10)
  4. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    08 Mar '18 05:17
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    Jesus Christ, of course, was born in Bethlehem.
    What evidence do you have that Jesus was born in Bethlehem?
  5. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    08 Mar '18 05:21
    Originally posted by @fmf
    What evidence do you have that Jesus was born in Bethlehem?
    Historical evidence, surely as a self proclaimed historian you should know this?
  6. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    08 Mar '18 05:21
    Here’s one from the book of Zechariah, which was written about 500 years before Jesus Christ’s arrival on earth:

    “Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the Lord.

    And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee.”

    (Zechariah 2:10-11)
  7. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    08 Mar '18 05:27
    FMF: What evidence do you have that Jesus was born in Bethlehem?

    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Historical evidence, surely as a self proclaimed historian you should know this?
    What is the "historical evidence" you claim you have exactly?
  8. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    08 Mar '18 05:44
    Originally posted by @fmf
    What is the "historical evidence" you claim you have exactly?
    If you are genuinely interested in evidence and not trolling, I suggest you take a look at the following link:
    https://bryanwindle.wordpress.com/2016/12/15/the-archaeology-of-christmas/
  9. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    08 Mar '18 05:53
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    If you are genuinely interested in evidence and not trolling, I suggest you take a look at the following link:
    https://bryanwindle.wordpress.com/2016/12/15/the-archaeology-of-christmas/
    You misunderstand. I am asking about who made the claim that Jesus was born in Bethlehem.
  10. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    08 Mar '18 05:57
    Originally posted by @fmf
    You misunderstand. I am asking about who made the claim that Jesus was born in Bethlehem.
    Why are you asking me questions you already know the answers to? Have you never read the gospels?
  11. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    08 Mar '18 06:02
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Why are you asking me questions you already know the answers to? Have you never read the gospels?
    Your petulance indicates that you are already anticipating the very straightforward point of my question to Romans1009. He said Jesus Christ, of course, was born in Bethlehem. I think the book of Micah (in the Old Testament) was written 700+ years before Jesus Christ arrived on earth. Another way of expressing this would be... 'The claim that Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem was made 700+ years after the book of Micah was written.'
  12. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    08 Mar '18 06:05
    The amazing prophecy in the book of Daniel, which was written about 600 years before Jesus Christ’s arrival on earth:

    “Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

    (Daniel 9:25-27)

    Since this prophecy requires explanation, I’ll attach an article that concerns it.
  13. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    08 Mar '18 06:16
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    The amazing prophecy in the book of Daniel, which was written about 600 years before Jesus Christ’s arrival on earth:

    “Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wal ...[text shortened]... l 9:25-27)

    Since this prophecy requires explanation, I’ll attach an article that concerns it.
    “An ancient Rabbinic curse in the Talmud forbids people to read Daniel 9:24-27. Why? What are they trying to hide?

    The 70-week prophecy, the greatest proof of Jesus as the Messiah, is found in these verses. They predict the time of the Messiah's anointing, putting the issue beyond doubt.

    Let us unravel the prophecy by allowing Scripture to be its own expositor.

    The Day-Year Principle

    Prophecies are couched in symbolic language that needs to be unraveled before the meaning of the words can be understood. Prophetic time is used as a symbol to be interpreted in the light of Scripture.

    According to the number of the days in which you spied out the land, forty days, for each day you shall bear your guilt one year, namely forty years (Numbers 14:34 NKJV).

    I have appointed thee each day for a year (Ezekiel 4:6).

    These two texts provide the key—the day-year principle. This principle takes prophetic days and converts them to actual years. Applying this principle to the 70-week prophecy will show that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah.

    Six Messianic Tasks

    Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy (Daniel 9:24).

    “Thy people” were God’s chosen people Israel. Seventy weeks resolves into 490 days. Applying the day-year principle, 490 days become 490 years.

    The 490 years were appointed to the Jewish nation for these six reasons found in Daniel 9:24:
    1. to finish the transgression
    2. to make an end of sins
    3. to make reconciliation for iniquity
    4. to bring in everlasting righteousness
    5. to seal up vision and prophecy
    6. to anoint the most Holy

    These six issues could only be fulfilled in and through the Messiah. Who else could make reconciliation for iniquity or bring in everlasting righteousness?

    Jesus Fulfills the Prophecy

    Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (Daniel 9:25-27).

    The angel gives a breakdown of the 70 weeks as follows:
    7 weeks of years for rebuilding of Jerusalem (verse 25)
    62 weeks of years to the Messiah (verses 25-26)
    1 week of years to the close of the period (verse 27)

    The 2300-day prophecy, of which the 70-week prophecy is a small part, was to begin at the command that effected the restoration of Jerusalem. This command went forth under King Artaxerxes Longimanus in the year 457 BC (Ezra 7:12-13).ii

    From this starting point, we can determine all the other time markers of the prophecy.

    Seven weeks were allotted for the restoration of Jerusalem.

    True to the prophecy, Jerusalem was rebuilt 49 years after 457 BC, which was 408 BC.

    Seven weeks (49 day-years) for the rebuilding of Jerusalem and another threescore and two weeks (62 weeks or 434 day-years) brings us to "the Messiah the Prince."

    Beginning in 457 BC and applying the day-year principle, we can determine the passing of 483 years from 457 BC which brings us to 27 AD (allowing for the conversion from BC to AD being one extra year).

    In 27 AD, Jesus was anointed by the Holy Spirit on the occasion of His baptism which marked the beginning of His ministry (Luke 3:21-23).

    This baptism marked the event in Daniel’s prophecy “unto the Messiah the Prince.” When Christ proclaimed, “The time is fulfilled” (Mark 1:15), He was referring to this part of the prophecy.iii

    The end of the prophecy is 34 AD, 7 day-years after the baptism:

    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease (Daniel 9:27).

    Christ would confirm the covenant made with Israel for one prophetic week (7 years), but oblation (offerings) would cease in the middle of the week (3 ½ years after 27 AD).

    This mid-point brings us to 31 AD—the year Christ was crucified. It was at His death that he put an end to the system of offerings practiced by Israel for so many years.”
  14. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    08 Mar '18 06:32
    Psalm 22, written about 1,000 years before Jesus Christ arrived on earth, apparently includes 11 prophecies concerning Jesus Christ’s crucifixion:

    “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

    O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

    But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

    Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

    They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

    But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

    All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

    He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

    But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

    I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

    Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

    Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

    They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

    I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

    My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

    For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

    I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

    They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

    But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

    Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

    Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

    I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

    Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

    For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

    My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

    The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

    All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

    For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.

    All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

    A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

    They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.”

    (Psalm 22)
  15. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    08 Mar '18 06:37 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Your petulance indicates that you are already anticipating the very straightforward point of my question to Romans1009. He said [b]Jesus Christ, of course, was born in Bethlehem. I think the book of Micah (in the Old Testament) was written 700+ years before Jesus Christ arrived on earth. Another way of expressing this would be... 'The claim that Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem was made 700+ years after the book of Micah was written.'[/b]
    If you have a point to make feel free to make it. You are boring us with your rhetorical questions.