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This talk of soul reminds me--
Some Christians believe that they have a material body in heaven, right from day one. Others say that only the soul goes to Heaven, and it remains unphysical until the Second Coming of Jesus, at which point atoms in the Earth's crust and oceans and atmosphere that had been in the body at the moment of person's death travel up into the clouds, and from there to Heaven to reunite with the soul.
I don't see how the latter works in detail, because a carbon atom that had been in the body of a twelfth-century Italian Christian at death might well have been in the body of an Ethiopian Christian who died in the twentieth century.
Originally posted by sonshipNo, you do not get to pick and choose which of his teachings other followers must follow.
It is required by Jesus whom you intend to follow, that you DO believes certain things concerning Him.
The soul is comprised of the mind, the emotion, and the will. Three component functions - mind, emotion, will comprise what the Bible refers to as the soul.
Christ Himself will examine me face to face one day. That is as real to me as eating a piece of toast. Then whether I pretend or not will be manifested.
You may think of me as a pretender now if you wish. That is a very small thing to me. When those flaming eyes of the Son of God turn their burning gaze on me, as will happen, now His evaluation does concern me a lot more.
So, as I expected, you do not wish to discuss the soul, and are willing to be called a pretender rather than take up the challenge. Yet you criticise others for being similarly unwilling to discuss certain subjects. Hypocrite.
Originally posted by Paul Dirac IIAll I know about the soul is that for the most part, the definition has been greatly influenced by Greek Mythology.
This talk of soul reminds me--
Some Christians believe that they have a material body in heaven, right from day one. Others say that only the soul goes to Heaven, and it remains unphysical until the Second Coming of Jesus, at which point atoms in the Earth's crust and oceans and atmosphere that had been in the body at the moment of person's death tr ...[text shortened]... might well have been in the body of an Ethiopian Christian who died in the twentieth century.
The soul is simply what animates a person or animal. It is what makes you alive, nothing more. Animals have soul life as well. At death, the soul ceases to exist. Natural man is composed of body and soul. When he/she receives the new birth, they receive holy spirit. When the bible speaks of the heart is something else. At times it means the mind, the will, or emotion of a person.
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyThe fact that you feel the need to qualify the word fact with the word factual suggests to me that the fact is that you do not know what the word fact means.
factual fact: you've received physical life from God.
And the fact is, even if you do, the fact is that this 'fact' is not a fact, in fact.
Though it may be true.
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Originally posted by checkbaiterSo what you call the soul is really at the cellular level and each individual cell has a soul? Or when cells live in communities do their souls merge?
All I know about the soul is that for the most part, the definition has been greatly influenced by Greek Mythology.
The soul is simply what animates a person or animal. It is what makes you alive, nothing more. Animals have soul life as well. At death, the soul ceases to exist. Natural man is composed of body and soul. When he/she receives the new birt ...[text shortened]... ks of the heart is something else. At times it means the mind, the will, or emotion of a person.
I am however more interested in the 'soul' as talked about by theists. I keep being told that 'I' will go to hell, or heaven or cease to exist depending on which religion I follow or don't follow or what I choose to believe or not believe or who I choose to pray to etc. But nobody can seem to tell me what this 'I' is that will survive death. I find it strange that people can go around confidently preaching their religion, and discussing it in detail, but the moment you ask about the one most critical factor, the centre of it all, the most important concept in the whole thing, suddenly nobody wants to talk.
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Originally posted by Rank outsiderJust in jest, Rank, though the comfort zones of some Outsiders may vibrate with disgust.
The fact that you feel the need to qualify the word fact with the word factual suggests to me that the fact is that you do not know what the word fact means.
And the fact is, even if you do, the fact is that this 'fact' is not a fact, in fact.
Though it may be true.
P.S. Interesting post from another forum site, "You Spam therefore You Am.
Originally posted by twhiteheadWhen an unbeliever dies, he goes in the ground. For all intents and purposes he/she ceases to exist. The body decomposes, the soul vanishes into nothing, and if it is a believer, the spirit goes back to God who gave it.
So what you call the soul is really at the cellular level and each individual cell has a soul? Or when cells live in communities do their souls merge?
I am however more interested in the 'soul' as talked about by theists. I keep being told that 'I' will go to hell, or heaven or cease to exist depending on which religion I follow or don't follow or what I ...[text shortened]... of it all, the most important concept in the whole thing, suddenly nobody wants to talk.
In the Resurrection, all will be made alive again, the unbeliever is tossed in the Lake of Fire where he will burn up and be turned to ashes, the believer will receive a new body and forever more be with Jesus.
I do not believe unbelievers will be tormented forever, just long enough to die by fire.
Of course this is my opinion, as I read it in the bible. This is what I believe with all my heart.
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Originally posted by checkbaiterI am pleased to see that you think your God would be good enough to resurrect me simply to torture me so that I die again, but only do it for a short while, rather than for eternity.
When an unbeliever dies, he goes in the ground. For all intents and purposes he/she ceases to exist. The body decomposes, the soul vanishes into nothing, and if it is a believer, the spirit goes back to God who gave it.
In the Resurrection, all will be made alive again, the unbeliever is tossed in the Lake of Fire where he will burn up and be turned to ...[text shortened]... course this is my opinion, as I read it in the bible. This is what I believe with all my heart.
Can you imagine what you would call me if I, through medical science, were able to bring a murderer back to life from the grave and then did it only to torture him to death again?
And can you imagine what you would call me if this person were not a murderer, but simply had believed in one of the myriad of Gods other people believe in, and for which there is no greater evidence for or against their existence.
And what you would call me if that person had simply spent their life quietly helping the poor and sick and living an otherwise moral life?
It seems odd to me that you would want to believe in something so patently cruel and immoral.
Originally posted by checkbaiterWhat a malicious God you believe in. He resurrects people just so he can burn them.
In the Resurrection, all will be made alive again, the unbeliever is tossed in the Lake of Fire where he will burn up and be turned to ashes, the believer will receive a new body and forever more be with Jesus.
So, when this resurrection takes place, at what point of your former life are you reconstituted to? The point of death? Some time prior to that? Or are you made into some new creature with just similarities to the former you?
You say you will receive a 'new body'? So what are you, if not your body? Which part remains?
Just to get you started, try answering these questions:
1. If a believer goes insane 2 years before death, will he be insane when he is resurrected? Same question for Parkinson's sufferers or other people who loose their memories.
2. If I am divided into two parts, will both parts be resurrected separately, or somehow rejoined? I am thinking here of things like identical twins, split personalities and such like.
Originally posted by Rank outsiderAccording to scripture, the purpose of the resurrection is so the soul can face judgment for what was done in the body. So the soul will appear in that body before the judge to answer and give a defense and then judgment will be passed. That is no difference that the accused in our life on earth being locked away in jail for a time and then brought to trial. There are many bad things we do in life that we get away without being punished in the flesh. That is not justice and must be remedied somehow. As I understand it, Satan will be the accuser and prosecuting attorney that we must defend ourselves against. Do you think you will need a defense attorney or can you do it on your own?
I am pleased to see that you think your God would be good enough to resurrect me simply to torture me so that I die again, but only do it for a short while, rather than for eternity.
Can you imagine what you would call me if I, through medical science, were able to bring a murderer back to life from the grave and then did it only to torture him to d ...[text shortened]...
It seems odd to me that you would want to believe in something so patently cruel and immoral.
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Originally posted by RJHindsWell, the 'charge' which we were discussing is that I do not believe in your God.
According to scripture, the purpose of the resurrection is so the soul can face judgment for what was done in the body. So the soul will appear in that body before the judge to answer and give a defense and then judgment will be passed. That is no difference that the accused in our life on earth being locked away in jail for a time and then brought to tri ...[text shortened]... ourselves against. Do you think you will need a defense attorney or can you do it on your own?
To which I say, as I did not commit any crime, there is no case for me to answer.
Of course, if I were to believe in your God, it won't take me long to find another religion that will tell me that I will face the same charge with their God, and will be equally damned for not believing in that one.
As you cannot give me any objective reason to believe in your God as opposed to any other, a God that wants to punish me for this, instead of just letting me remain dead, seems barbaric, sadistic and cruel.
Which is a reason to believe in one of the other Gods, if anything.
Originally posted by Rank outsiderI suppose you have it all figured out then. 😏
Well, the 'charge' which we were discussing is that I do not believe in your God.
To which I say, as I did not commit any crime, there is no case for me to answer.
Of course, if I were to believe in your God, it won't take me long to find another religion that will tell me that I will face the same charge with their God, and will be equally damne ...[text shortened]... c, sadistic and cruel.
Which is a reason to believe in one of the other Gods, if anything.
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Originally posted by RJHindsNo, I think I made it pretty clear that I cannot rationally chose between the rival claims made by people as to why I should follow their religion as opposed to any other.
I suppose you have it all figured out then. 😏
Nor, it appears, can you. Or indeed anyone on this forum, as I have asked this question in varying ways a number of times.
Originally posted by twhiteheadThis is known as the 2nd death, there will be as RJ says a trial or judgement. We Christians have as our defense attorney, Jesus Christ, who has already paid for our sins.
What a malicious God you believe in. He resurrects people just so he can burn them.
So, when this resurrection takes place, at what point of your former life are you reconstituted to? The point of death? Some time prior to that? Or are you made into some new creature with just similarities to the former you?
You say you will receive a 'new body'? So w ...[text shortened]... joined? I am thinking here of things like identical twins, split personalities and such like.
Your first death will be by accident, sickness or just a natural death...you have not answered for your sins until the judgement.
Your opinion of God is irrelevant, the judgement will still come in due time. I believe with my whole being that these events will occur not too far from our present future.
It is not too late to receive Jesus Christ as Lord and be forgiven for your sins now.
When ressurected we will have bodies just like Jesus. We will be whole and full of great joy.