1. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    27 Nov '05 04:397 edits
    I just thought I'd post an article in the style of ivanhoe. Although I don't have a Vatican article, here's the latest Catholic news from Arizona.

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    http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=4138302

    Former priest convicted of child molestation,
    AP 11/18/05

    A Roman Catholic priest was found guilty Thursday of sexually abusing boys in his Arizona parishes after a trial which included testimony from four Indiana men who said they were also molested by the priest years before.

    Mesa jurors found the Rev. Paul LeBrun guilty after three weeks of testimony.

    LeBrun, 49, has been jailed since 2003, and now faces between 81 and 110 years in prison. LeBrun was posted at Little Flower Catholic Church in South Bend before being removed from public ministry in 1999.

    Although he has been stripped of his priestly duties, LeBrun remains a member of the Catholic clergy.

    The Diocese of Phoenix released a statement Thursday afternoon calling the legal process "a long and arduous journey for all involved in this case." The statement said the diocese hopes the trial's end brings "closure, healing and reconciliation."

    The church statement also reaffirmed its policy of assisting authorities in investigating abuse.

    LeBrun is the first priest from the Phoenix area whose case went through trial since the Catholic sex scandal broke nearly four years ago. Other local cases ended in plea bargains, and two priests fled the country.

    LeBrun stood trial on eight counts of sexual conduct with a minor and five counts of child molestation. They returned the six guilty verdicts but couldn't reach agreements on five others. One other count was dropped and LeBrun was acquitted of one count.

    Prosecutors alleged during the trial that LeBrun took advantage of young boys in Arizona and Indiana whose parents were abusive, divorced or who were abandoned by their fathers, according to the posted Thursday on The Arizona Republic's Web site.

    "He was basically a wolf in sheep's clothing," Prosecutor Suzanne Cohen said. "Everything he did was to get close to these little boys. Everything he did was to abuse these little boys."

    Defense attorney Ken Huls said the accusers didn't step forward for decades and are motivated by greed. He noted that four of the accusers have filed civil suits, and three have felony convictions.

    LeBrun was accused of abusing Arizona boys ranging from age 11 to 16 from 1986 to 1991 at two suburban Phoenix churches, St. John Vianney Church and the Blessed Sacrament Church.

    Four Indiana accusers ranging from ages 9 to 13 said they were abused between 1979 and 1986. LeBrun cannot be tried for those alleged crimes because the statute of limitations in Indiana has expired.

    -----------------------------------

    Particularly interesting is the fact that the Church has decided to allow this wolf to remain a member of the clergy. Would anybody care to defend this decision? Perhaps there's a CRISIS magazine article that explains how this wolf was actually helping to improve the abused children's lot in life, possibly by filling the role of the missing father.
  2. Standard memberDavid C
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    27 Nov '05 04:451 edit
    I got this one, Ivanhoe...

    "Stop persecuting the Catholic Church!"

    edit: Got you covered, too, Hammy:

    "Were they teenagers? Then it's technically not paedophilia!"
  3. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    27 Nov '05 04:48
    Originally posted by David C
    I got this one, Ivanhoe...

    "Stop persecuting the Catholic Church!"
    The Church needs to come to court with clean hands if they want protection from persecution. The fact that the wolf in question remains a member of their clergy is a lingering stain.
  4. Felicific Forest
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    27 Nov '05 05:383 edits
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    I just thought I'd post an article in the style of ivanhoe. Although I don't have a Vatican article, here's the latest Catholic news from Arizona.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=4138302

    [b]Former priest convicted of child molestation
    ,
    AP 11/18/05

    A Roman Cath ...[text shortened]... improve the abused children's lot in life, possibly by filling the role of the missing father.[/b]
    "Although he has been stripped of his priestly duties, LeBrun remains a member of the Catholic clergy."

    Dr.S: "Particularly interesting is the fact that the Church has decided to allow this wolf to remain a member of the clergy. Would anybody care to defend this decision?"

    He has been stripped of his priestly duties. That is the decision they made. When somebody is being ordained a priest, nobody, not even the Pope, can turn back this ordaination. There has not been a decision to "allow this wolf to remain a member of the clergy". It is simply not possible to make such a decision. This report, like so many others, is clearly showing a lack of fundamental knowledge about the Roman-Catholic Church. It anticipates on people's ignorance and gullibility. This is clearly an attempt to arouse people's moral indignation ..... and the Doctor, along with many many others I'm sure, took the bait.

    I hope all these sex-offenders will be traced and stripped of their priestly functions. I hope they will recieve the punishment they deserve and I hope they will honestly and deeply regret their evil actions. I hope they will ask for forgiveness from their victims and ultimately from God.
  5. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    27 Nov '05 05:422 edits
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    When somebody is being ordained a priest, nobody, not even the Pope, can turn back this ordaination. There has not been a decision to "allow this wolf to remain a member of the clergy". It is simply not possible to make such a decision.
    Well sure it is possible. The only missing prerequisite seems to be the modification of the doctrine that dictates the nature of ordination or the policy that disallows its revocation. With Jesus, all things are possible.
  6. Standard memberDavid C
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    27 Nov '05 05:44
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    I hope they will ask for forgiveness from their victims and ultimately from God.
    And if they do? Will it be all good, and they'll be feasting with Jesus foreverafter? Or can they be forgiven but still cast into the lake of fire?
  7. Felicific Forest
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    27 Nov '05 05:454 edits
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Well sure it is possible. The only missing prerequiste seems to be the modification of the doctrine that dictates the nature of ordination or the policy that disallows its revocation. With Jesus, all things are possible.
    The fact remains that such a decision, for the sex offender to remain in the RC clergy, never was made.

    .... and the fact remains that because of your ignorance and gullibility you took the bait.
  8. Felicific Forest
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    27 Nov '05 05:46
    Originally posted by David C
    And if they do? Will it be all good, and they'll be feasting with Jesus foreverafter? Or can they be forgiven but still cast into the lake of fire?
    What would you like to happen ?
  9. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    27 Nov '05 05:49
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    The fact remains that such a decision, for the sex offender to remain in the RC clergy, never was made.
    Suppose I send a demand letter to the Pope, calling for his removal from the clergy. If the Pope tosses my letter in the trash, would you say that that constitutes making the decision?
  10. Standard memberDavid C
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    27 Nov '05 05:50
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    What would you like to happen ?
    Doesn't matter what I want. You said you hoped he asks for forgiveness from his victims and god. I asked, could god forgive this priest, but still toss him in the pit? Is all it takes to repent molesting/abusing young boys good enough to get to the Promised Land?
  11. Felicific Forest
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    27 Nov '05 05:54
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Suppose I send a demand letter to the Pope, calling for his removal from the clergy. If the Pope tosses my letter in the trash, would you say that that constitutes making the decision?
    Suppose you stop your legalistic way of reasoning and throw your phantasies in the trash ... I wonder what would happen to you.
  12. Felicific Forest
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    27 Nov '05 05:56
    Originally posted by David C
    Doesn't matter what I want. You said you hoped he asks for forgiveness from his victims and god. I asked, could god forgive this priest, but still toss him in the pit? Is all it takes to repent molesting/abusing young boys good enough to get to the Promised Land?
    David C: "Doesn't matter what I want"

    Of course it matters.
  13. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    27 Nov '05 05:57
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    Suppose you stop your legalistic way of reasoning
    And what manner of reasoning would you have me follow instead? Or would you have me deny my human nature and not reason in any manner at all?
  14. Felicific Forest
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    27 Nov '05 05:59
    I wonder if you guys really are interested in the pain and agony of the victims. I strongly doubt it. Your whole attitude points in a quite different direction. Guess what that direction is ?
  15. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    27 Nov '05 06:014 edits
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    the fact remains that because of your ignorance and gullibility you took the bait.
    This is a fact?

    This is a fact, and the journalistically appropriate claim in the AP article is not a fact but bait for the ignorant and gullible?

    The claim is true - he remains a member of the clergy. The Church has decided that ordination cannot be revoked, and thus the church has decided not to revoke this wolf's ordination. The journalist's only failing is that he didn't mention that the Church has decided to allow all child molesting priests, by virtue of the Church's chosen notion of ordination, to remain ordained members of the clergy. I'd say he let them off easy if this omission was intentional.

    You have a serious paranoia disorder.
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