Foundations

Originally posted by Jake Ellison
If its a test of the heart then it would be fair to say religion is founded in faith and not evidence. I see no reason for faith. Plus I don't believe you can't lead a good life and be an atheist.

Why do you think that Jesus after His resurrection asked His disciples give Him a piece of fish to eat? It was to provide them with evidence.

"And He said to them, Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your heart? See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you behold Me having. And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.

And while they still dod not believe for joy and were marveling, He said to them, Do you have anything here to eat? And they handed Him a piece of broiled fish; And He took it and ate before them." (Luke 24:38-43)

John writes that there were other proofs that He performed which were not specifically detailed:

"Moreover indeed many other signs also Jesus did before His disciples, which are not written in this book. But these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name" (John 20:30,31)

This passage is immediatly after the event in which Jesus asked the skeptical disciple Thomas, to place his hands in His wounds and empirically prove to himself that Jesus had actually risen.

John says "many other signs also did Jesus did before His disciples"

So Christ did care to pass on to His disciples evidence of His resurrection and consquently His Lordship.

The New Testament also candidly tells us that even some of the disciples still doubted after seeing Him alive:

"And the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus directed them.

And when they saw Him, they worshipped, though some doubted." (Matt, 27:16,17)

Man's capacity to doubt God seems without end sometimes - "though some doubted". I believe the report of the disciples who overcame their doubts.

The gospel writer and historian Luke tells us in Acts that Christ presented many "irrefutable proofs" of His resurrection to His disciples:

"To whom [the apostles] He presented Himself alive after His suffering by many irrefutable proofs, appearing to them through a period of forty days and speaking the things concerning the kingdom of God." (Acts 1:3)

During this forty day period we are told that Jesus appeared to the disciples. He was seen and then He was not seen - off and on. It does not say that He went away. It says that He appeared or vanished from their sight.

What He was doing was training the apostles. He was training them to realize that He was still with them even though they could not see Him. He was training them to live by His unseen presence:

"And behold, I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age." (Matt. 28:20)

Today we did not see all of these irrefutable proofs. But we heard of some of them. And we must learn to take the word of His apostles and like they, learn to live by the invisible presence of the Lord Jesus.

They day will come when He will make His presence visible again. But today though we cannot see Him we can receive the Spirit of the resurrected Christ into our human spirit:

"The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

So Christ did care to provide evidence to His disciples.

Originally posted by jaywill
Why do you think that Jesus after His resurrection asked His disciples give Him a piece of fish to eat? It was to provide them with evidence.

[b]"And He said to them, Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your heart? See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you behold Me hav ...[text shortened]... Cor. 15:45)

So Christ did care to provide evidence to His disciples.[/b]

Or so you think. Someone recently gave me fairly conclusive evidence that Father Christmas was Jesus. You going to believe me just because I say it?

Originally posted by Jake Ellison
Or so you think. Someone recently gave me fairly conclusive evidence that Father Christmas was Jesus. You going to believe me just because I say it?

huh?

You're going back to posting without much thought again.

I find your posts which reflect some thought to be more interesting.

Originally posted by jaywill
huh?

You're going back to posting without much thought again.

I find your posts which reflect some thought to be more interesting.

You'll have to forgive me I've had a very boring day.

You can't use evidence that Jesus gave people as rock solid truth. Sure if I'd seen Jesus eating fish after I'd seen him die I'd think him alive. But if someone tells me a dead guy is up walking around I'm not going to trust him. Especally if its two thousand years ago and we don't even know if the person accridited with the gosple wrote it.

Originally posted by Jake Ellison
You'll have to forgive me I've had a very boring day.

You can't use evidence that Jesus gave people as rock solid truth. Sure if I'd seen Jesus eating fish after I'd seen him die I'd think him alive. But if someone tells me a dead guy is up walking around I'm not going to trust him. Especally if its two thousand years ago and we don't even know if the person accridited with the gosple wrote it.

As long as you see Jesus as just some "dead guy" I think you don't appreciate how His victory over Death is consistent with His victory over so many other troublesome areas of human existence.

I find the miracle of His resurrection to be consistent, wonderfully so, with the power of His words and the authority with which He acted and spoke.

To me it all fits. Such an extraordinary Person justifies an extraordinary conquest so as that even death could not hold Him down.

His victory over death, to me is not wishful thinking. It is consistent with the authority and power He manifested before His crucifixion.

When the guards were sent to arrest Him they came back empty and said:

"No man ever spoke as this man."

The resurrection is consistent with the power of His personality, in my faith.

Originally posted by shavixmir
I guess one of the basic foundations of life for me is: "Don't do to others what you don't want them to do to you."

That is a hadith for prophet Mohammed,

Are you a Muslim...😵

Originally posted by Jake Ellison
You'll have to forgive me I've had a very boring day.

You can't use evidence that Jesus gave people as rock solid truth. Sure if I'd seen Jesus eating fish after I'd seen him die I'd think him alive. But if someone tells me a dead guy is up walking around I'm not going to trust him. Especally if its two thousand years ago and we don't even know if the person accridited with the gosple wrote it.

Do you believe everything came from nothing a few billion years ago
during a big bang? Is that any different than someone telling you
that someone rose from the dead?
Kelly

I read an article in El Mundo newspaper about a forensicist who believes that Jesus didn't actually die on the cross, but merely fell into a coma, was believed dead and was revived, partly due to his body regaining respiratory and cardiac functions after it was taken down, and partly due to the medicinal qualities of the substances used to clean his body in preparation for entombment.

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2007/05/24/ciencia/1179992669.html

unfortunately it's only in Spanish

Originally posted by nige22
I read an article in El Mundo newspaper about a forensicist who believes that Jesus didn't actually die on the cross, but merely fell into a coma, was believed dead and was revived, partly due to his body regaining respiratory and cardiac functions after it was taken down, and partly due to the medicinal qualities of the substances used to clean his body in p ...[text shortened]... ww.elmundo.es/elmundo/2007/05/24/ciencia/1179992669.html

unfortunately it's only in Spanish

Its true you know. He also retrieved Lazurus from his coma like state much in the same way. Then he must come back for a second time and he will do the same with all of us. He will come back and do CPR on us all! You see, there really is a logical explanation for everything. In fact, I am currently working on the thesis that when Christ really walked on the waters of the sea of Galilee, that this was due to sandels made from a very boyant bamboo tree made from Jerusalem. 😛