05 Mar '19 03:19>
@philokalia saidBecause I don't find the evidence credible. I used to. But I don't now. When I did, I couldn't decide to find it not credible. And now, I can't decide to find it credible.
Why don't you believe in those things?
@philokalia saidBecause I don't find the evidence credible. I used to. But I don't now. When I did, I couldn't decide to find it not credible. And now, I can't decide to find it credible.
Why don't you believe in those things?
@philokalia saidI don't think I did.
Yet, you could have at any point decided to do something that would theoretically accelerate your disbelief, right?
@philokalia saidNo, not "anyone". And I have never uttered a word to that effect on this forum in all my tears here. I did use the word "brainwashing" yesterday but not in the way you are using it in your question.
Are you suggesting that belief in God is so untenable that anyone who remains in it is actively maintaining some kind of self-brainwashing?
@philokalia saidI don't believe the same things as you do. And I doubt that I share your belief in "certain realities that are more conducive to understanding the truth" in so far as this pertains to religion and faith.
Because it is clearly a choice -- and if it is not a choice, then surely there is some ultimate reality about how people believe things, and clearly there's going to be certain realities that are more conducitve to understanding the truth, and others tht aren't.
@philokalia saidI don't believe in the supposed "absolutes" that are bandied about in the rhetoric we encounter in the realm of people sharing their speculation and aspirations about supernatural things.
You surely believe in absolutes on this.
@philokalia saidI just realized that I wasn't a Christian anymore because I no longer believed the things Christians claim about themselves and about Jesus. It was a gradual process. Even the realization was gradual.
Or, you could have decided to invest yourself in a different path of logic that would reinforce your beliefs, right?
@philokalia saidYou saying this stuff ~ about me supposedly being ignorant, uneducated, unaware, uninformed, very shallow, sadly narrow etc. ~ is rooted in you not having read what I wrote carefully.
I think that is an example of ignorance. You are "uneducated, unaware, or uninformed" of how to think about these things objectively.
@philokalia saidyou could have decided to invest yourself in a different path of logic that would reinforce your beliefs
Yet, you could have at any point decided to do something that would theoretically accelerate your disbelief, right?
Or, you could have decided to invest yourself in a different path of logic that would reinforce your beliefs, right?
@fmf saidAw, I think you must have done that in the edit because I recollect you denying that that was the case in post 4006250
I didn't "refuse to apply it to someone's belief in sexism or racism". Indeed, what I said, very explicitly, was this: "Yes, I am sure there all manner of beliefs about all kinds of things that many people cannot change their mind about even if they want to". You are mistaken.
I'd say that if an Islamic fundamentalist takes violent or murderous action then that is a decision they make using their "free will" [indoctrination, blackmail, mental health etc, notwithstanding], even if they feel some compulsion or imperative based on their religious beliefs.
But their underlying belief in the Abrahamic God ~ and all the faith invested in the supernatural beings and phenomena attendant thereto ~ would not be something they could switch on or switch off using "free will".
Complete lack of evidence for belief in supernatural beliefs, in my view. I think this sets it apart from other beliefs, although if you want to argue that there are non-religious beliefs that are impervious to "free will", I'm sure you're right. I'm sure there are some things that we believe so strongly that we cannot shed them even if we want to. Nevertheless, my OP is about "free will" versus belief in a god or gods and is in connection with 'spirituality' and is some personal testimony of sorts.
@fmf saidIt's frustrating when people just jump to conclusions quickly about what you have stated and they do not necessarily follow what you wrote precisely, right?
Not at all. Have you not read what I wrote?
@fmf saidSo then why does one person believe in God, and another does not?
I don't believe the same things as you do. And I doubt that I share your belief in "certain realities that are more conducive to understanding the truth" in so far as this pertains to religion and faith.
@philokalia saidPost as you see fit. You are what you post. So am I.
It's frustrating when people just jump to conclusions quickly about what you have stated and they do not necessarily follow what you wrote precisely, right?
That was happening to me earlier, I recollect.
I apologize if I made some mistake. ^^
Maybe we need to be more charitable to one another in our posts.
@fmf saidI don't understand why you would play down this event.
I just realized that I wasn't a Christian anymore because I no longer believed the things Christians claim about themselves and about Jesus. It was a gradual process. Even the realization was gradual.
@fmf saidThat's where you're wrong:
Post as you see fit. You are what you post. So am I.
@philokalia saidBecause we are all different.
So then why does one person believe in God, and another does not?