From the Law to Grace

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21 Nov '17 15:44

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11 Dec '17 12:045 edits
Originally posted by @wolfgang59
How many of the 613 commandments do you obey?

Just the ones you like?
I seek to be a normal Christian living by the grace of Christ. That is taping into the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

"There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death." (Rom. 8:1,2)

In Christ's life is the law of His own perfect life which can function for me, in me and on my behalf to learn to enjoy Christ as my very obedience to God.

The New Testament says that if we walk by the Spirit of Christ, the righteous requirement of the law of God is fulfilled in us.

"That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit. " (Rom. 8:4)

Here, the editors of the Greek text to English make spirit with a small s because they feel best understanding is this:

The capital S Holy Spirit, Who is Jesus Christ and God, mingled with the human small s spirit to become "one spirit".

Again the Spirit of Christ, the Third Person of the Trinity unites and blends with the human spirit, the innermost spiritual "organ" within believers, to become one mingled, one blended, one united spirit.

"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)

Learning to live in this new realm Christ becomes like "power steering" to us empowering us to walk as sons of God and the righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in us.
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11 Dec '17 12:11
Fallen man concept is full of the idea of self improvement.

Living by the grace of Christ is radical. It is only possible because God is able to cause ONE PERSON - Jesus Christ, to actually come to us in His pneumatic form and be "one spirit" with our innermost spiritual being.

Man's concept is filled up with the thought that a holy book tells us what to do and what not to do. Walking in the grace of Christ is radical because it is about Christ blending with us and being lived out from us in a united and incorporated way.

Praise the Lord for "the grace of Christ" .
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11 Dec '17 12:14
Originally posted by @sonship
Fallen man concept is full of the idea of self improvement.
On the "Christian morals" thread, didn't you say that "self improvement" is not a "Christian" virtue or something like that?
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12 Dec '17 06:25
BUMP for sonship
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12 Dec '17 06:501 edit
Originally posted by @fmf
On the "Christian morals" thread, didn't you say that "self improvement" is not a "Christian" virtue or something like that?
Find, cut and paste in here whatever it is you remember.
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12 Dec '17 07:362 edits
Originally posted by @sonship
Find, cut and paste in here whatever it is you remember.
I would have thought you either have a religious stance on "self-improvement" that you could simply state. Or you don't. Do you believe "self-improvement" is an aspect of "Christian morals" or not?
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12 Dec '17 09:31
Originally posted by @fmf
I would have thought you either have a religious stance on "self-improvement" that you could simply state. Or you don't. Do you believe "self-improvement" is an aspect of "Christian morals" or not?
Find, cut and paste in here whatever it is you remember.

If you want to verify what you "would have thought" then first quote what you remember me writing by cut and paste.

By and large self effort is something that Christ came to save us from.

" I am able to do all things ... THROUGH ... Christ who empowers me." (Phil. 4:13)

I already know how you are likely to counter and exploit the matter.
Your supposedly "clever" comebacks are already anticipated.
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12 Dec '17 09:35
Originally posted by @sonship
Find, cut and paste in here whatever it is you remember.

If you want to verify what you "would have thought" then first quote what you remember me writing by cut and paste.

By and large self effort is something that Christ came to save us from.

[quote] [b] " I am able to do all things ... THROUGH ... Christ who empowers me." (Phil. ...[text shortened]... to counter and exploit the matter.
Your supposedly "clever" comebacks are already anticipated.
Do you have a Christian/religious stance on "self-improvement" that you can simply state?
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12 Dec '17 09:442 edits
Colosians is one of the places we see most clearly Christ saving His believers from SELF - reform, religion, philosophy, self improvement efforts of all kinds - philosophical and religious.

IE.

"Beware that no one carries you off as spoil through his philosophy and empty deceit, according to the traditions of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ." (Col. 2:8)

Human tradition is full of self effort, self reform methods. Living in the realm of the living Person Christ is living by the grace of Christ empowering the believer.

The context makes it clear.

Rather than Christians holding to philosophies and self help / self improvement methods of the fallen man, they should hold on to the living Person of Jesus Christ - "the Head".

" ... holding the Head, out from whom all the Body, being richly supplied ..." (2:19a)

All the empowering and life power is derived from Christ the Head of His mystical Body.

The believers are made full in Him.

" And you have been made full in Him, who is the Head of all rule and authority." (2:10)

God seeks to bring fallen man back to Himself as the indwelling divine life.
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12 Dec '17 09:49
Because these concepts can be misunderstood it should be noted that this is not anarchy.

This saying Christ is grace to man instead of the moral code doesn't not mean that i should not obey the traffic lights.

It does not mean that I should not teach my children to follow the rules of the codes at school.

Living by grace rather than under the law, even the law of God, does not mean that I do not follow the laws of the land or the codes of a civil society.

In fact Christ is also grace to empower me to live under any form of government via Romans 13 .
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12 Dec '17 09:56
Originally posted by @sonship
Rather than Christians holding to philosophies and self help / self improvement methods of the fallen man, they should hold on to the living Person of Jesus Christ - "the Head".

" ... holding the Head, out from whom all the Body, being richly supplied ..." (2:19a)

All the empowering and life power is derived from Christ ...[text shortened]... ) [/b] [/quote]

God seeks to bring fallen man back to Himself as the indwelling divine life.[/b]
Do you think that non-Christians, who don't believe any of the stuff you believe, regardless of what you do, should engage in "self-improvement"? Do you believe that "self-improvement" is morally sound and beneficial to the other humans around us no matter what their religious beliefs are?
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12 Dec '17 09:571 edit
Originally posted by @fmf
Do you have a Christian/religious stance on "self-improvement" that you can simply state?
I adhere to the principle that the law was a child-conductor leading believer to faith in Christ.

This means that codes or morality, like the law of Moses, may have some temporary facility to

1.) Preserve society from descending into total anarchy (in chaotic sense)

2.) Act as a educator to point the way to living by the FINER, RICHER, more DETAILED grace of Christ touching not just the outward action but the innermost motive.

The grand moral code was a tutor or ancient Greek child conduction leading the God seekers to live by faith in Christ.

Self help eventually becomes self defeating very often.
That is because the nature of SIN in man is to rebel on general principle.

SIN in man sees man wanting to do good, and acts as an evil person even dragging man down - on general principle. This is fully covered in Romans chapter 7.

We need a more powerful Person to join us. God is able to do that.
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12 Dec '17 10:091 edit
Originally posted by @fmf
Do you think that non-Christians, who don't believe any of the stuff you believe, regardless of what you do, should engage in "self-improvement"? Do you believe that "self-improvement" is morally sound and beneficial to the other humans around us no matter what their religious beliefs are?
Do you think that non-Christians, who don't believe any of the stuff you believe, regardless of what you do, should engage in "self-improvement"?

Yes.
That can be a breaking system arresting their downward slide.

You job is perhaps teach people that that is all they need.
My job is to tell them of the revolutionary way to live by the grace of Christ for God's eternal purpose.

Yes, Self help programs have some usage.

I'll go further too. Sometimes the Holy Spirit will lead a person to SUBMIT himself to some program. So that IN that program she or he learns to take Christ's empowering grace to cooperate.

A Christian may not be so spiritual that he need not submit to some learning program enacted by unbelievers.

You should read the Bible more and your would derive these things yourself just by noticing what you read.

Do you believe that "self-improvement" is morally sound and beneficial to the other humans around us no matter what their religious beliefs are?

Government is better than no government.
Good government is better than bad government.
God's government is best of all.

The governing of some self help systems can be useful as a preservative against total anarchy.

This should answer your questions.
You should not have to repeat them.

From the Law to Grace concerns God's eternal purpose.
You may be more interested in bandaids on the wounds of a fallen world.

The Gospel focuses on the eternal kingdom which will replace this sin filled and spiritually dead fallen world.

So if you wish to benefit from some self help program - go in peace and do so. I am sharing here about the kingdom of Christ and God.
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12 Dec '17 10:111 edit
So if you wish to benefit from some self help program - go in peace and do so. I am sharing here about the kingdom of Christ and God.
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12 Dec '17 10:38
Originally posted by @sonship
So if you wish to benefit from some self help program - go in peace and do so. I am sharing here about the kingdom of Christ and God.
You urge me to "go in peace"? You mean, go from this debate and discussion forum?